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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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Richard it's great to be back in the

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zone against episode for Stefan what

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would we do without that tremendous

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music oh I know where they came that

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must mean channel through some sort of

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astral plane to be to be that good an

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astral plane is that like an aeroplane

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with sound astral plane moves sounded

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like that oh that's excellent that's

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great to be back again the fourth

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skeptic zone or ever moving on from the

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old skeptic tanguita which was awesome

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in its david that the zone is just so

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much better i do i love i love being in

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the zone and apparently lots of people

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out there also love it we're looking at

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about 3,000 downloads so far we've

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cracked about 2,000 in fact we've passed

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two thousand I to subscribers oh crap in

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the shadows it's a relatively new show

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thanks for and thanks for everybody who

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are taking the time to email us it's

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really great yeah it's been great we're

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getting a lot of good feedback I don't

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we sort of clown around it at the

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beginning here but it's it's all in good

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fun because it is actually a fun topic

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skepticism people think it's a dry and

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draw but now it's a lot of fun well as

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many facets I did silly but I think it

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really does and this week's show has

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many facets of course we're going to be

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we went last weekend to the Australian

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skeptics and national convention oh you

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did to once again you I couldn't make it

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it's so distressing but you had a good

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time we had a fantastic time and we'll

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be talking we had some interviews which

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will be playing a bit later on awesome

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and also there's a strange incident with

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a camel but we'll get to that I don't

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know if we should I keep shooting you

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know Marta is the writing going to

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change or just you'll just have to keep

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it this means no but it's still PG

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that's good that's good and so what else

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was happening we got up Oh dr. Phil

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Plait about one of the big news is our

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first interview in a few modes will be

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dr. Phil Plait this is a live interview

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we recorded a dragon con oh yes he's at

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dinner a legend isn't he a bit of a

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legend he's got a new book out death

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from the skies my goodness that all the

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way the world could really end and there

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are a lot of those aren't there I was

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actually reading up about that and

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there's there's so many like all these

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gap bursts of radiation

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and you know meteorites but there's a

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bunch of others that you'd never dream

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of we're going to be trouble black holes

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white holes our sons exploding bombs

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exploding earthquakes it's all getting

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pretty busy of course that's going to be

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the major feature for the Today Show I

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think but also look out for dr. Rachel

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reports dr. Rachel Dunlop tackling

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quackery ah she's good isn't she and she

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always comes up some nights she's got a

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good sense of humor too so he does

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report always peppered with nicely done

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things and today it's she's looking at

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quackery in pharmacies oh there's none

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of that is there well you'd be surprised

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really yes I'm surprised you remember

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the good old days of ear candling love

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you Carolyn like after a long line of

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ear candling actually yeah I've always

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trusted my pharmacist I can't believe

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that what you're saying it's a pretty

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strange tune in for dr. H it's it's a

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bit disturbing I must admit it's a min

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disturbing and that's followed of course

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by the think tank where we get together

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micro lehand Amanda Rose Rachel Dunlop

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and myself Oh crowd into this club down

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the street rip open a couple of bottles

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of champagne and go for it good this way

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yeah you got to invite me to one of

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those one day well yes anytime anytime

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okay I'll gonna rise yourself away from

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the glom glom rip which has been serious

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medium enterprise now it's a bit tough

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but I will manage these are tear myself

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when get there and oh I don't put I did

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I did I tore myself away just the other

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night at Macquarie uni well yeah thanks

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for everybody who came to the Macquarie

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University to hear me give my talk

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mystery investigations and I like you

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stepping for being there are you

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alleging yours are you talked to always

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fascinating into an in fact filled and

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and the crowd lab there's a spoon

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bending got a lot I love that yes I

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think it's on with the show what do you

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think I think so Stefan and I'll see or

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speak to you at the end of the show in

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about an hour or so looking forward to

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moving right along with a shot like to

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ask our next guest to the table dr. Phil

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Plait know that's right you've got about

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5 10 minutes so that's right talk really

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fast no I feel ready sure I can say my

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name in under five of 10 Phil Plait is

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being brought to you today by the

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mystery investigators wwm istry

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investigators calm the only paranormal

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busting show for schools in Australia

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thank you had to get that in although

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actually I was brought here by although

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that's wonderful i love mystery

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investigators but i do have to give a

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shout out to the international year of

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astronomy and pamela gay who did sponsor

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my mighty hated this convention now

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fills an old friend of australia and

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australian skeptics we brought fill out

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all right we brought fill out to

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australia in 2004 to attend our

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convention than you gave many more

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torques why you were there oh that was

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that was fantastic we went to four

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different observatories toward the Blue

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Mountains went from Canberra from Sydney

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to Canberra and it was two weeks of

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basically real heaven it was great and I

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hear that you contributed to the

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Australian English language as well you

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invented a new word for us either side

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well yeah I was pretty sure that they

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were making up most of the things they

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were telling me you're an American you'd

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see all these these signs for we're

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going to call them harshly and and so I

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I said you could just make up words and

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it would sound real and Richard said I

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don't leak you can do that and I said

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well I think it's a perfectly draw a

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thing to do and so now now I use that

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word I don't think anybody else does but

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I do it does sound Australian yeah yeah

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we get in this so if you hear the term

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draw bleah in the future well yeah

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because Richard was telling me to call

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people galas and drongos although i

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think one of those is not used it that

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much anymore another used they are as a

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drunk a little bit all I think I

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convinced him there was a duck and I

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said look at that drunk oh over there

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tried to convince him that we use crazy

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words for the common objects yeah and I

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had really interesting conversations

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about what a sloppy joe is and it's like

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totally to you know and it's a food in

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America but it's a sweatshirt in

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Australia and they were

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Jenna said well she said well it's ass

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why you call it a sweatshirt as well and

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so off we went into a into a little you

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know twisty maze of passages all of

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which looked alike so now was a lot of

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fun one of the things that but I will

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always remember about Phil's visit to

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Australia's we took him out to show him

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the night sky okay now a couple of

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questions fill before you tell people

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about the night sky in Australia how

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different what do we see from Australia

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that you don't see here I heard that in

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Australia in the southern hemisphere

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you're actually looking in towards the

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center of the galaxy am I wrong or right

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now it's that's correct it's a little

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bit more complicated in that but you can

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see that from the northern hemisphere

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our galaxy is a flat disk and we live

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off to one side so it's like living in

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the suburbs of a city where you can see

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downtown if you look in a certain

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direction and it just so happens that

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that is south of the Equator on the sky

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if you project the earth's equator onto

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the sky to divide that into a northern

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and southern hemisphere the galaxy's

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center is south of the equator but you

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can see it from most of the northern

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hemisphere so where I live in Boulder

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Colorado that's in the direction of

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Sagittarius the constellation

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Sagittarius so I can see that but it's

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low on the horizon when you're on the

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southern hemisphere or if you're for

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example cruising to the Galapagos

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Islands as we did a couple of weeks ago

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with the James Randi Educational

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Foundation the Sagittarius passes almost

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overhead and if the moon hadn't have

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been almost full while we were there

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that was probably the biggest

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disappointment of that entire trip of

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which there were very few was that the

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moon was so bright we couldn't see the

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Milky Way sprawled out from from Horizon

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to Horizon like that yeah which you can

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do in Australia when you look up in the

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night sky yeah it's a terrific backbone

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of the night yeah I remember yeah cross

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it's stunning on a moonless night I do I

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swear and I was with Phil when he saw

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the little dwarf galaxies right part of

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our galaxy orbit our galaxy how does it

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work well that was stunning when I got

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there Australia had been in a very

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severe drought and it hadn't rained in I

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think two years and in some pots yeah in

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some parts and so

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it got cloudy when I got there and

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started raining and so everybody was

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thrilled except me I was hemisphere for

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the first time and it was freaking

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raining but it finally cleared up and it

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just so happened it was when we were

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driving to Canberra and so we went up

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Mount Stromlo i think it was or if that

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is the name of the mountain and we just

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were just stopping by to take a look at

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the stars and literally walked out of

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the car close the door looked up and I

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could see the large and the small

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Magellanic Clouds and these are tiny

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irregular galaxies that have a few few

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hundred million stars in them that orbit

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the Milky Way like the way the moon

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orbits the earth and so from the from

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the northern hemisphere you can see the

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Andromeda galaxy which is two and a half

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or a little bit more million light-years

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away it's a major galaxy but it's so far

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away it just looks like a faint smudge

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in the sky these guys were like BAM like

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hang in there in the sky and it was

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stunning I had studied a supernova 1987a

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which was a star that exploded in the

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Large Magellanic Cloud I'd studied this

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with Hubble had you know in all this but

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I had never actually seen the lmc the

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Large Magellanic Cloud so when I stepped

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out of the car and saw that it was as if

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I had been nailed to the ground and I

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literally choked up I was on the verge

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of tears it was probably the most

268
00:10:07,350 --> 00:10:04,660
amazing thing I have ever seen in the

269
00:10:09,059 --> 00:10:07,360
night sky it was life-changing very cool

270
00:10:11,069 --> 00:10:09,069
but it's interesting to note that most

271
00:10:12,780 --> 00:10:11,079
australians i would i would say wouldn't

272
00:10:14,069 --> 00:10:12,790
know what they're looking at when they

273
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:14,079
look up and see those things they're

274
00:10:16,499 --> 00:10:15,370
really yeah you know it's like New

275
00:10:17,730 --> 00:10:16,509
Yorkers who have never been up the

276
00:10:21,150 --> 00:10:17,740
Statue of Liberty it's you know it's

277
00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:21,160
your what you're used to and to see that

278
00:10:26,009 --> 00:10:23,529
and on the cruise a couple of weeks ago

279
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:26,019
to see Alpha Centauri and the Southern

280
00:10:29,189 --> 00:10:27,370
Cross which could have been better

281
00:10:30,869 --> 00:10:29,199
because again the moon was up but you

282
00:10:32,069 --> 00:10:30,879
know when you have people who are all

283
00:10:33,210 --> 00:10:32,079
from the Northern Hemisphere and I was

284
00:10:35,069 --> 00:10:33,220
pointing out you know that bright star

285
00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:35,079
there that's Alpha Centauri and

286
00:10:38,730 --> 00:10:36,970
everybody was just like you could hear

287
00:10:42,569 --> 00:10:38,740
that the intake of breath it was very

288
00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:42,579
cool no Phil is also and I know this

289
00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:44,110
will come as a surprise to some people

290
00:10:56,770 --> 00:10:54,400
yay yes i sat on my butt and stared my

291
00:10:58,950 --> 00:10:56,780
computer for a year oh good you have

292
00:11:02,410 --> 00:10:58,960
another he's lazy Oh opportunity of that

293
00:11:04,540 --> 00:11:02,420
now Phil for our Australian listeners

294
00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:04,550
what can you tell them about your new

295
00:11:13,750 --> 00:11:11,950
the new book is called death from the

296
00:11:16,050 --> 00:11:13,760
skies it comes out in October available

297
00:11:18,940 --> 00:11:16,060
for pre-order on amazon even today and

298
00:11:20,530 --> 00:11:18,950
it's all the different ways life on

299
00:11:22,450 --> 00:11:20,540
earth can be wiped out by cosmic

300
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:22,460
catastrophes and I love this because

301
00:11:25,930 --> 00:11:23,930
whenever I mention it somebody says oh

302
00:11:28,030 --> 00:11:25,940
do you talk about asteroids is like yeah

303
00:11:29,650 --> 00:11:28,040
that's that's chapter 1 we get things we

304
00:11:31,870 --> 00:11:29,660
get the easy stuff out of the way right

305
00:11:33,580 --> 00:11:31,880
away it's a way to get to chapter 5 and

306
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:33,590
see if you can sleep through the night

307
00:11:38,890 --> 00:11:36,530
um it's it's it's a it's scientifically

308
00:11:41,260 --> 00:11:38,900
based you know I don't exaggerate any of

309
00:11:43,540 --> 00:11:41,270
the any of the disasters if it's because

310
00:11:44,830 --> 00:11:43,550
for a lot of them there's no need to you

311
00:11:47,530 --> 00:11:44,840
know something's gonna vaporize the

312
00:11:49,060 --> 00:11:47,540
earth we're done you know so why make

313
00:11:51,490 --> 00:11:49,070
that sound any worse than it's going to

314
00:11:53,560 --> 00:11:51,500
be but what I do talk about is the

315
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:53,570
science behind the why black holes for

316
00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:55,850
mean what is a black hole and how does

317
00:12:00,460 --> 00:11:57,770
it form why is it that these things are

318
00:12:02,170 --> 00:12:00,470
dangerous although in reality the odds

319
00:12:04,150 --> 00:12:02,180
of these things happening or are being

320
00:12:07,150 --> 00:12:04,160
being a dangerous are really low so

321
00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:07,160
while an asteroid impact will occur if

322
00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:08,510
we don't do anything about it in the

323
00:12:12,580 --> 00:12:11,180
next hundred or thousand years a lot of

324
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:12,590
these things like a black hole passing

325
00:12:16,210 --> 00:12:14,210
through the solar system they're fun to

326
00:12:17,260 --> 00:12:16,220
think about in sort of a scary movie

327
00:12:19,150 --> 00:12:17,270
kind of way but the odds of them

328
00:12:21,010 --> 00:12:19,160
happening are so infinitesimal it's not

329
00:12:22,810 --> 00:12:21,020
worth worrying about so I like to talk

330
00:12:25,540 --> 00:12:22,820
about that you know I don't I want to I

331
00:12:26,530 --> 00:12:25,550
want to make you go ye you know when

332
00:12:28,810 --> 00:12:26,540
you're reading it but I don't want you

333
00:12:31,090 --> 00:12:28,820
to go behind right around and panic in

334
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:31,100
circles right to the dinosaurs and yeah

335
00:12:34,690 --> 00:12:32,810
exactly that's one of the lines I like

336
00:12:36,670 --> 00:12:34,700
you know I would question rather similar

337
00:12:38,770 --> 00:12:36,680
to the one I asked dr. Jim ginger camel

338
00:12:40,420 --> 00:12:38,780
earlier in regards to how much does pop

339
00:12:42,010 --> 00:12:40,430
culture contribute to this sort of fear

340
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:42,020
I mean here we are at dragoncon we've

341
00:12:45,940 --> 00:12:44,090
got half a dozen science fiction tracks

342
00:12:49,060 --> 00:12:45,950
around a place I'm trying to embrace my

343
00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:49,070
inner costume botanist here I mean we

344
00:12:51,940 --> 00:12:50,570
should have more costumes quite frankly

345
00:12:54,780 --> 00:12:51,950
and I think we should start with you and

346
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:54,790
those feather boas yeah you carry good

347
00:12:58,590 --> 00:12:57,440
photo opportunity ladies and gentlemen

348
00:13:00,840 --> 00:12:58,600
yeah this is

349
00:13:02,340 --> 00:13:00,850
yose is very dignified thank you you're

350
00:13:03,809 --> 00:13:02,350
welcome hey it could be where she could

351
00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:03,819
be wearing about you suspended on his

352
00:13:07,829 --> 00:13:05,290
he's leaving it on good i'm wearing a

353
00:13:10,680 --> 00:13:07,839
pink feather boa nelson president of the

354
00:13:12,269 --> 00:13:10,690
j RF just saying oh ya hain't not great

355
00:13:13,829 --> 00:13:12,279
now there are far worse pictures of me

356
00:13:17,069 --> 00:13:13,839
at this convention I think that should

357
00:13:19,860 --> 00:13:17,079
be ideally is left on the welcome mat I

358
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:19,870
think when I got a plan how much does

359
00:13:23,009 --> 00:13:21,519
pop culture contribute to this fear I

360
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:23,019
mean there are so many films out there

361
00:13:27,780 --> 00:13:25,839
which let's let's face it really need

362
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:27,790
people with qualifications standing in

363
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:30,370
on the facts and wrote adding to what

364
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:32,050
what is being put out there especially

365
00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:33,970
young people i have young women telling

366
00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:35,889
me oh i'll give you have a serious fan

367
00:13:41,550 --> 00:13:37,990
of the black one the black ones a little

368
00:13:43,050 --> 00:13:41,560
bit young women because the Square

369
00:13:44,670 --> 00:13:43,060
Kilometre Array we're hoping to get it

370
00:13:47,819 --> 00:13:44,680
out out near where I am in Western

371
00:13:49,650 --> 00:13:47,829
Australia young women in fact as I was

372
00:13:51,629 --> 00:13:49,660
doing research saying I'm interested in

373
00:13:54,059 --> 00:13:51,639
the sky right you scar coming out and

374
00:13:55,410 --> 00:13:54,069
I'm intrigued by science fiction and

375
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:55,420
I've seen how it's being betrayed and I

376
00:13:59,460 --> 00:13:57,250
want to get into the industry so how

377
00:14:01,230 --> 00:13:59,470
much of a contribution does poplar does

378
00:14:04,499 --> 00:14:01,240
we have a half an hour left right that I

379
00:14:06,150 --> 00:14:04,509
can go into this yeah yeah pop culture

380
00:14:07,530 --> 00:14:06,160
does contribute a lot to this to the

381
00:14:10,199 --> 00:14:07,540
sphere because people are very concerned

382
00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:10,209
about asteroid impacts or or other

383
00:14:14,910 --> 00:14:11,470
things like that but it's it's an

384
00:14:17,220 --> 00:14:14,920
unrealistic yeah a presentation it deep

385
00:14:20,819 --> 00:14:17,230
impact the movie that came out 1998 was

386
00:14:24,329 --> 00:14:20,829
relatively accurate Armageddon of course

387
00:14:26,249 --> 00:14:24,339
was not somebody somebody wants

388
00:14:28,350 --> 00:14:26,259
commented that Armageddon had sub comic

389
00:14:30,569 --> 00:14:28,360
levels a sub comic book level science

390
00:14:33,059 --> 00:14:30,579
and I thought wow yeah you know

391
00:14:34,829 --> 00:14:33,069
that'sthat's Wow and that's about right

392
00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:34,839
and it's funny because you know

393
00:14:38,069 --> 00:14:36,970
Armageddon they talk about an enormous

394
00:14:40,259 --> 00:14:38,079
asteroid that's going to hit the earth

395
00:14:41,850 --> 00:14:40,269
and wipe out all life but they actually

396
00:14:43,559 --> 00:14:41,860
when they talk about some of the other

397
00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:43,569
aspects of the movie they underestimate

398
00:14:46,350 --> 00:14:45,310
the danger of it they talked about the

399
00:14:49,379 --> 00:14:46,360
asteroid that wiped out the dinosaurs

400
00:14:50,819 --> 00:14:49,389
having a the impact of 10,000 atomic

401
00:14:52,319 --> 00:14:50,829
bombs or something like that it's like

402
00:14:54,449 --> 00:14:52,329
yeah it wasn't so much ten thousand as

403
00:14:56,370 --> 00:14:54,459
it was 10 billion or something like that

404
00:14:58,290 --> 00:14:56,380
I mean they just really really grossly

405
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:58,300
underestimated it so it's funny how they

406
00:15:01,259 --> 00:14:59,920
try to exaggerate things and screw it up

407
00:15:02,910 --> 00:15:01,269
and when things really aren't a danger

408
00:15:05,189 --> 00:15:02,920
they make it seem like it is because you

409
00:15:06,780 --> 00:15:05,199
know it's a movie or a TV show I'm

410
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:06,790
hoping that my book will help straighten

411
00:15:10,260 --> 00:15:08,410
some of that out I've been giving it to

412
00:15:12,750 --> 00:15:10,270
TV producers all the time

413
00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:12,760
maicon you know these days as well you

414
00:15:17,190 --> 00:15:14,470
treat this pseudo scientific theories

415
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:17,200
you tell them i talk about alien

416
00:15:20,970 --> 00:15:19,090
invasions in the book and because i

417
00:15:24,330 --> 00:15:20,980
thought that would be fun to write about

418
00:15:25,770 --> 00:15:24,340
it turned out to be fun but also a

419
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:25,780
little creepy because it seems more

420
00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:27,850
likely you talk about viruses or

421
00:15:33,570 --> 00:15:31,300
bacteria falling from space and and its

422
00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:33,580
really really unlikely for this a to

423
00:15:38,250 --> 00:15:35,620
happen or be to be able to really do

424
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:38,260
anything to us but just reading you know

425
00:15:42,780 --> 00:15:40,000
I actually realized I don't really

426
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:42,790
understand why bacteria can make a sick

427
00:15:48,210 --> 00:15:45,730
so I got to read about that yeah that

428
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:48,220
was a key and and what virus is doing

429
00:15:55,890 --> 00:15:52,570
prions oh god Oh Brian's terrify me to

430
00:15:57,600 --> 00:15:55,900
scare the crap out of me yeah I'm never

431
00:16:01,440 --> 00:15:57,610
gonna eat you know beef American beef

432
00:16:03,260 --> 00:16:01,450
again but then I talk about aliens and

433
00:16:05,430 --> 00:16:03,270
why you know why don't we see aliens and

434
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:05,440
nobody really no no we do come to

435
00:16:09,870 --> 00:16:07,330
Australia yeah well that's I guess

436
00:16:12,510 --> 00:16:09,880
that's true we must wrap this up on how

437
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:12,520
you feel but on a final note in your

438
00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:14,170
research and according to your book are

439
00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:19,110
we any safer in Australia good question

440
00:16:24,810 --> 00:16:22,990
no you know because because of these

441
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:24,820
these events are global in nature so it

442
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:27,130
doesn't matter where you live and in

443
00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:29,650
fact in Australia everything can kill

444
00:16:35,430 --> 00:16:32,710
you you know the grass there is venomous

445
00:16:37,770 --> 00:16:35,440
the air you know it's like oh look at

446
00:16:40,230 --> 00:16:37,780
this pretty constant in your dead you

447
00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:40,240
know so I think the Sharks actually have

448
00:16:45,030 --> 00:16:43,090
wings in awe struck a deal yes yeah well

449
00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:45,040
on that note I'd like to thank dr. Phil

450
00:16:56,379 --> 00:16:51,559
thank you and I'd like to thank zone

451
00:17:07,439 --> 00:16:56,389
reporters dr. Kerr installs new and

452
00:17:13,150 --> 00:17:10,660
that was dr. Phil the bad astronomer

453
00:17:15,370 --> 00:17:13,160
plate talking to the skeptic zone at

454
00:17:17,470 --> 00:17:15,380
Dragon Con this year if you would like

455
00:17:20,290 --> 00:17:17,480
to win a copy of his brand-new book

456
00:17:24,030 --> 00:17:20,300
death from the skies simply head to the

457
00:17:27,910 --> 00:17:24,040
skeptic zone blog our blog is at ww

458
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:27,920
skeptic zone wordpress com and there you

459
00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:30,170
can enter in our slogan and logo

460
00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:32,570
competition so when the death from the

461
00:17:42,370 --> 00:17:35,900
skies prize at skeptic zone wordpress

462
00:17:45,910 --> 00:17:42,380
com the australian skeptics National

463
00:17:48,610 --> 00:17:45,920
Convention for 2018 was held in Adelaide

464
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:48,620
South Australia two days of talks

465
00:17:54,430 --> 00:17:51,170
dinners good times and lots of

466
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:54,440
skepticism zone reporters dr. Rachel

467
00:17:59,290 --> 00:17:57,200
Dunlop amanda rose and Kylie Sturgis

468
00:18:04,660 --> 00:17:59,300
were in attendance and we managed to

469
00:18:06,070 --> 00:18:04,670
grab some interviews along the way and

470
00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:06,080
we're here right now at the Adelaide

471
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:08,690
convention I'm standing next to the uber

472
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:11,120
master skeptic Barry Williams Barry how

473
00:18:15,190 --> 00:18:12,490
are you this wonderful morning Oh

474
00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:15,200
fantastic thank you so what are some of

475
00:18:18,190 --> 00:18:16,220
the features that you're looking forward

476
00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:18,200
to at this conference living long enough

477
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:20,090
to see the end of it that's the most

478
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:22,130
important thing I know we got Loretta

479
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:24,530
Marin coming Loretta's here and looking

480
00:18:29,620 --> 00:18:26,510
forward to her talk and Richard of

481
00:18:31,060 --> 00:18:29,630
course and yourself in fact a bunch of

482
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:31,070
our friends are going to be talking here

483
00:18:35,770 --> 00:18:32,450
which I'm looking forward to a lot and

484
00:18:39,010 --> 00:18:35,780
and maybe seeing some new people that I

485
00:18:40,330 --> 00:18:39,020
haven't seen before this however despite

486
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:40,340
the fact that you're going to be leaving

487
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:42,050
the Australian skeptics in a formal

488
00:18:47,110 --> 00:18:44,510
capacity will you continue to attend

489
00:18:49,150 --> 00:18:47,120
conferences or even oh yeah you too I'm

490
00:18:51,670 --> 00:18:49,160
the only person who's attended all 24

491
00:18:53,890 --> 00:18:51,680
this would be the 24th I've attended

492
00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:53,900
and I mean I've got a guy the next

493
00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:55,310
year's because i don't like 25 which is

494
00:18:59,410 --> 00:18:56,930
a nice and then i can go I in the face

495
00:19:03,430 --> 00:18:59,420
oh well certainly hoping for a really

496
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:03,440
long life action over the 50 of you yes

497
00:19:09,070 --> 00:19:05,930
that lubrizol for the name of skepticism

498
00:19:10,660 --> 00:19:09,080
let me breathe thank you thank you well

499
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:10,670
people are sort of turning out um is

500
00:19:15,220 --> 00:19:12,890
also too long queue going out the door

501
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:15,230
here Carly its conventions letting moxie

502
00:19:19,030 --> 00:19:17,330
and there's some strange people in now

503
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:19,040
in the queue here where I should seem so

504
00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:20,930
strange it was fine they're very

505
00:19:25,450 --> 00:19:23,150
skeptical and very wondering and want to

506
00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:25,460
know more about it yeah and here's let's

507
00:19:30,970 --> 00:19:27,740
talk to a person at random in the queue

508
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:30,980
hello lady that's your name my name is

509
00:19:36,340 --> 00:19:32,690
Jessica hello Jessica what brings you

510
00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:36,350
here I'm a skeptic just gift economic

511
00:19:40,270 --> 00:19:37,910
looking forward to what looks like a

512
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:40,280
great programmer great day and great

513
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:42,530
dinner tonight him a good day time no

514
00:19:46,990 --> 00:19:44,000
did you bring your husband about into I

515
00:19:50,170 --> 00:19:47,000
did he is right behind me I couldn't

516
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:50,180
help them notice his legs just ready to

517
00:19:54,190 --> 00:19:51,890
give anyone a bit of a stomping here

518
00:19:56,110 --> 00:19:54,200
deserves a great thanks to know your

519
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:56,120
fantasies are full of years no there

520
00:20:00,910 --> 00:19:57,770
there the genuine document may told us

521
00:20:05,770 --> 00:20:00,920
oh don't go to these amazing one though

522
00:20:08,230 --> 00:20:05,780
Shana not original the proper yellow

523
00:20:10,420 --> 00:20:08,240
stripe purchased in nineteen ninety 90

524
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:10,430
and they still last it's the one about

525
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:12,080
15 years I've been with their for

526
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:16,130
stopping on the air cannons maturing so

527
00:20:20,410 --> 00:20:17,690
do you see an analogy between the

528
00:20:25,510 --> 00:20:20,420
awesome power of the of the doc martin

529
00:20:27,790 --> 00:20:25,520
and skepticism yeah you know it a

530
00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:27,800
long-lasting you know power must be

531
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:30,170
carefully directed only three yes yes

532
00:20:36,020 --> 00:20:33,290
good pitch I must be maintained gotta

533
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:36,030
stop it we have to see

534
00:20:41,910 --> 00:20:38,650
now here are some interviews conducted

535
00:20:46,730 --> 00:20:41,920
by Kylie Sturgis starting with Loretta

536
00:20:51,420 --> 00:20:49,800
how are you fantastic a particularly

537
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:51,430
fantastic because you're presenting

538
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:54,250
again and power things progresses the

539
00:20:57,810 --> 00:20:56,410
last conference well very slowly but

540
00:21:00,540 --> 00:20:57,820
they are progressing you they tell me

541
00:21:02,730 --> 00:21:00,550
it's like water on a rock oh and it's

542
00:21:04,350 --> 00:21:02,740
going to take that long but with the New

543
00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:04,360
Labour government coming in there's been

544
00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:06,880
some very positive signs yes I'm

545
00:21:10,890 --> 00:21:08,590
optimistic that something may happen

546
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:10,900
eventually okay so what are some of the

547
00:21:13,500 --> 00:21:12,250
goals that we're hoping might come

548
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:13,510
through with the new change in

549
00:21:16,050 --> 00:21:14,650
government to your Australia all right

550
00:21:17,850 --> 00:21:16,060
well the first thing that's happened is

551
00:21:20,790 --> 00:21:17,860
because of the medical journal article

552
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:20,800
that we put out in January yes I work on

553
00:21:24,180 --> 00:21:22,690
that illness skeptics on website so

554
00:21:26,190 --> 00:21:24,190
everyone can check it out no well that

555
00:21:28,380 --> 00:21:26,200
was showing the lack of regulation he

556
00:21:30,780 --> 00:21:28,390
has much you met Cynthia federal

557
00:21:32,940 --> 00:21:30,790
government's organized a group of people

558
00:21:35,550 --> 00:21:32,950
from including professor chris del mar

559
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:35,560
from bond university and the drugs

560
00:21:39,780 --> 00:21:37,930
interaction group from the matter and a

561
00:21:40,950 --> 00:21:39,790
whole bunch of our wonderful people who

562
00:21:42,660 --> 00:21:40,960
are interested in complementary

563
00:21:45,450 --> 00:21:42,670
medicines to come up with a

564
00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:45,460
recommendation on a resource that is

565
00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:48,130
accessible to healthcare practitioners

566
00:21:52,050 --> 00:21:49,870
and to consumers now we're right in the

567
00:21:54,060 --> 00:21:52,060
middle of that we've narrowed it down to

568
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:54,070
six I don't know what they are because

569
00:21:57,420 --> 00:21:55,570
it's you know double-blind at so to

570
00:21:58,680 --> 00:21:57,430
speak yeah and so hopefully that will

571
00:22:00,840 --> 00:21:58,690
come out in the next couple of months

572
00:22:02,690 --> 00:22:00,850
you've always been a groundbreaker in

573
00:22:05,580 --> 00:22:02,700
terms of getting information out your

574
00:22:07,530 --> 00:22:05,590
website for example that was one of the

575
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:07,540
first resources that I found in terms of

576
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:09,970
making links two challenges two

577
00:22:13,530 --> 00:22:12,310
complementary medicine online and now

578
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:13,540
we've started to have a sort of like

579
00:22:17,550 --> 00:22:15,760
even more of a trickle effect for

580
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,560
example simon sings book which has come

581
00:22:22,110 --> 00:22:19,360
out in regards to trick or treatment

582
00:22:24,510 --> 00:22:22,120
really absolutely brilliant book in fact

583
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:24,520
I quite often quote the book even

584
00:22:27,630 --> 00:22:25,810
yesterday someone asked me about

585
00:22:30,030 --> 00:22:27,640
acupuncture nie said oh you better read

586
00:22:31,770 --> 00:22:30,040
his book the Germans have done 10 mega

587
00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:31,780
trials and the results are just coming

588
00:22:36,540 --> 00:22:34,480
out now and it's shown to be placebo but

589
00:22:39,810 --> 00:22:36,550
another thing that might happen back in

590
00:22:42,540 --> 00:22:39,820
November last year new guidelines were

591
00:22:44,790 --> 00:22:42,550
given to the TGA on weight loss products

592
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:44,800
yes now they're sitting there

593
00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:46,570
written and they've written to me to say

594
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:48,460
we've got all these new guidelines and

595
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:50,890
11 months later they're still collecting

596
00:22:55,770 --> 00:22:53,290
dust but I'm hoping in the next few

597
00:22:58,080 --> 00:22:55,780
months maybe they'll come out but that's

598
00:23:00,030 --> 00:22:58,090
really quite sad because seven million

599
00:23:02,340 --> 00:23:00,040
overweight obese Australians four

600
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:02,350
million diabetics and the government is

601
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:05,770
raking in millions in GST on these

602
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:07,690
products the guidelines were written by

603
00:23:12,990 --> 00:23:10,810
an Orthodox doctor and they're good

604
00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:13,000
which is probably why they don't want to

605
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:15,070
put them out as the post to the

606
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:17,410
homeopathic guidelines set of just the

607
00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:19,390
draft has been released which were

608
00:23:23,460 --> 00:23:21,430
written in consultation with

609
00:23:25,260 --> 00:23:23,470
stakeholders in other words the

610
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:25,270
homeopaths helped them write the

611
00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:29,290
guidelines the guidelines they said back

612
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:32,950
in 2003 and expert committee said to the

613
00:23:39,390 --> 00:23:35,410
TGA you are responsible for safety

614
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:39,400
quality and efficacy in this 85 page

615
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:41,410
document they've forgotten about the

616
00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:46,330
efficacy so it's 85 pages are not one

617
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:48,310
mention of the fact that the stuff

618
00:23:54,060 --> 00:23:50,410
doesn't work they've pretty much diluted

619
00:23:55,770 --> 00:23:54,070
it out haven't they yes God so that's

620
00:23:57,270 --> 00:23:55,780
kind of quite sad but you know the

621
00:23:59,580 --> 00:23:57,280
skeptics are right on to that one as

622
00:24:00,960 --> 00:23:59,590
well yeah do you have any suggestions

623
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:00,970
for skeptics out there I mean you've

624
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:02,890
just been like a one-woman force of

625
00:24:07,710 --> 00:24:04,690
nature in so many ways and really

626
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:07,720
inspirational what is what can people to

627
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:09,370
do do to make that first step do you

628
00:24:14,190 --> 00:24:11,650
think complain complain complain about

629
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:14,200
the advertising when I started on this

630
00:24:18,780 --> 00:24:16,000
the complaint resolution panel who are

631
00:24:20,820 --> 00:24:18,790
quite good not perfect but reasonably

632
00:24:25,140 --> 00:24:20,830
good we're getting ten complaints a

633
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:25,150
month now it's rocketed ahead and that's

634
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:26,770
a terrific thing to do because if you

635
00:24:30,750 --> 00:24:29,110
get rid of the advertising it's a step

636
00:24:32,220 --> 00:24:30,760
in the right direction the other thing

637
00:24:34,650 --> 00:24:32,230
you can complain to is your local

638
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:34,660
pharmacy because I can get rid of a

639
00:24:38,460 --> 00:24:36,610
hundred adverts but you're welcome to

640
00:24:40,830 --> 00:24:38,470
the pharmacy and he's selling all the

641
00:24:42,810 --> 00:24:40,840
rubbish there yeah yeah that's quite sad

642
00:24:44,580 --> 00:24:42,820
it's really depressing how we can go

643
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:44,590
into local pharmacy find everything from

644
00:24:50,850 --> 00:24:47,580
ear candles too little packets of

645
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:50,860
complete and utter nonsense and yet yet

646
00:24:53,970 --> 00:24:52,090
people are willing to listen to the

647
00:24:55,549 --> 00:24:53,980
consumers I must admit if you put it

648
00:24:56,930 --> 00:24:55,559
forward reasonably and don't

649
00:24:58,730 --> 00:24:56,940
tell them oh my goodness you're a

650
00:25:00,200 --> 00:24:58,740
criminal for selling this stuff that

651
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:00,210
just essentially burns your ears out

652
00:25:04,669 --> 00:25:03,120
being calm and rational don't seem to

653
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:04,679
have a bit of an impact i must admit and

654
00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:05,490
it's one of the things that you've

655
00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:08,220
always put forward i must have met being

656
00:25:13,310 --> 00:25:10,919
the calm rational we care people well

657
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:13,320
the other thing too is the doctors like

658
00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:15,360
professor john dwyer of a fellow

659
00:25:19,220 --> 00:25:17,460
australians get to give the year he said

660
00:25:21,529 --> 00:25:19,230
to me one day that he thought it was

661
00:25:24,110 --> 00:25:21,539
great that I was coming out on this

662
00:25:25,759 --> 00:25:24,120
issue because I was a consumer yeah and

663
00:25:29,330 --> 00:25:25,769
he said I'm powerless to do anything

664
00:25:30,649 --> 00:25:29,340
when people don't complain yeah you got

665
00:25:32,629 --> 00:25:30,659
to hear the voice the guiding you the

666
00:25:37,460 --> 00:25:32,639
consumer so get out there complain

667
00:25:39,350 --> 00:25:37,470
complain complain so we're back you

668
00:25:40,909 --> 00:25:39,360
again at the Adelaide conference and I

669
00:25:42,889 --> 00:25:40,919
seem to be having a sequence of stair

670
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:42,899
interviews because I've now got Peter

671
00:25:48,049 --> 00:25:45,809
Elton the winner of the critical thinker

672
00:25:49,789 --> 00:25:48,059
of the Year award for 2008 it is

673
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:49,799
wonderful to meet you finally offline

674
00:25:55,310 --> 00:25:53,039
Peter yes you took quite a few phone

675
00:25:57,470 --> 00:25:55,320
conversation your online emails etc that

676
00:25:59,389 --> 00:25:57,480
yes nice place to work and it is

677
00:26:01,879 --> 00:25:59,399
wonderful to know that practice is being

678
00:26:04,639 --> 00:26:01,889
recognized it has just become absolute

679
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:04,649
powerhouse of resources and information

680
00:26:09,499 --> 00:26:06,090
for people teaching critical thinking

681
00:26:10,850 --> 00:26:09,509
that's great to hear um I know just what

682
00:26:13,310 --> 00:26:10,860
looking at the web statistics that it's

683
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:13,320
going to quite a lot of countries I

684
00:26:17,109 --> 00:26:14,730
think we're up to 80 countries now and

685
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:17,119
the big ones are America in the UK

686
00:26:23,389 --> 00:26:21,809
Canada and India surprisingly quite a

687
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:23,399
lot there yes fantastic and what's

688
00:26:26,899 --> 00:26:24,570
particularly pleasing is seeing some of

689
00:26:29,180 --> 00:26:26,909
the guys who Africa too so that's yeah

690
00:26:31,690 --> 00:26:29,190
that's a nicer and also did it in many

691
00:26:34,489 --> 00:26:31,700
ways it echoes the philosophy behind

692
00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:34,499
philosophy for children the p4c group in

693
00:26:38,239 --> 00:26:36,600
terms of getting it out there making it

694
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:38,249
worldwide and allowing everybody to have

695
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:39,690
the opportunity to investigate the

696
00:26:43,369 --> 00:26:41,610
community of inquiry that's one of the

697
00:26:45,950 --> 00:26:43,379
sources behind a lot of your work isn't

698
00:26:47,810 --> 00:26:45,960
it I don't claim to be an expert in the

699
00:26:51,739 --> 00:26:47,820
philosophy for children area i live out

700
00:26:53,239 --> 00:26:51,749
my betters I can I can I can't put out

701
00:26:55,900 --> 00:26:53,249
what I know is working in classrooms

702
00:26:58,400 --> 00:26:55,910
right now is res resources and

703
00:27:01,870 --> 00:26:58,410
you know those those people working in a

704
00:27:04,460 --> 00:27:01,880
faucet for children area have probably a

705
00:27:06,170 --> 00:27:04,470
better insight to the psychology minded

706
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:06,180
it says it's supposed to work but you

707
00:27:09,980 --> 00:27:07,770
know as I said one of the main purposes

708
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:09,990
of the website is resourcing yeah and

709
00:27:13,730 --> 00:27:12,210
awareness-raising so that's that's

710
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:13,740
really what we're trying to do so put it

711
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:14,850
the stuff into teachers hand so that

712
00:27:17,630 --> 00:27:16,050
they can say well that sounds like a

713
00:27:19,730 --> 00:27:17,640
great idea but what physically can

714
00:27:21,590 --> 00:27:19,740
actually do to make it happen and you on

715
00:27:23,420 --> 00:27:21,600
your own blog you you made that point

716
00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:23,430
about it's so easy to talk about this

717
00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:25,140
stuff there are a lot of people saying

718
00:27:28,669 --> 00:27:26,820
this is a great idea but how do you

719
00:27:30,230 --> 00:27:28,679
actually do it every school talks about

720
00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:30,240
wanting to produce critical thinkers and

721
00:27:32,930 --> 00:27:31,860
independent learners and when you ask

722
00:27:34,490 --> 00:27:32,940
them well put your finger on the

723
00:27:36,650 --> 00:27:34,500
curriculum exactly where that happens

724
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:36,660
you find that you know it dissolves in

725
00:27:39,650 --> 00:27:38,370
other warm fuzzies so you need to be

726
00:27:41,030 --> 00:27:39,660
able to say well this is what we're

727
00:27:42,470 --> 00:27:41,040
doing this is how we do it specifically

728
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:42,480
and here are the resources and you know

729
00:27:46,250 --> 00:27:43,710
here's some assessment pieces which we

730
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:46,260
have so therefore on whether it's

731
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:47,640
something that Michael McCrea another

732
00:27:52,010 --> 00:27:49,170
presenter at the conference this year

733
00:27:53,630 --> 00:27:52,020
was tapping into saying to skeptics

734
00:27:55,370 --> 00:27:53,640
right let's have goals let's have

735
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,380
achieved ball goals if you really want

736
00:27:59,299 --> 00:27:57,360
this to be getting out there let's start

737
00:28:00,890 --> 00:27:59,309
seeing how we can do that one of the

738
00:28:02,630 --> 00:28:00,900
ways that you're doing it includes

739
00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:02,640
videos as well I've noticed that you've

740
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:04,350
got a sequence there it's an

741
00:28:10,970 --> 00:28:05,850
experimental technique at the moment yes

742
00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:10,980
it is but youtube is such a fantastic

743
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:13,110
technology it seems ridiculous not to be

744
00:28:19,190 --> 00:28:14,250
able to get this out to as many people

745
00:28:20,630 --> 00:28:19,200
as possible and the simple points that I

746
00:28:22,490 --> 00:28:20,640
want to make Anna lessons as well you

747
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,500
know really can be gotten over to us for

748
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:24,720
a minute sometimes and and that their

749
00:28:28,430 --> 00:28:26,370
basic point is it's not rocket science

750
00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:28,440
it really isn't it simply and clear and

751
00:28:31,780 --> 00:28:30,120
yet you'll find that the the

752
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:31,790
understanding about these points is is

753
00:28:36,049 --> 00:28:34,170
no better among teachers generally than

754
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:36,059
it is among the general public and so

755
00:28:38,930 --> 00:28:37,050
you know I'm trying to direct this

756
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:38,940
particularly towards teachers so look if

757
00:28:41,180 --> 00:28:40,170
you want to be discussing critical

758
00:28:42,620 --> 00:28:41,190
thinking in the classroom if you want to

759
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:42,630
be talking about what a hypothesis is

760
00:28:45,049 --> 00:28:43,650
you my talk about the distinction

761
00:28:47,450 --> 00:28:45,059
between a scientific law and cyclic

762
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:47,460
theory whatever it might be here's some

763
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:51,450
sharp and concise points that you can

764
00:28:54,690 --> 00:28:53,410
use in the classroom

765
00:28:57,090 --> 00:28:54,700
together the course this is this is how

766
00:28:58,560 --> 00:28:57,100
to make a distinction this is this is

767
00:29:01,380 --> 00:28:58,570
just a very simple point that you need

768
00:29:04,380 --> 00:29:01,390
to make and nobody's making the point so

769
00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:04,390
yeah that's why gaining so Peter for

770
00:29:11,100 --> 00:29:05,950
people who want to know more where do

771
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:11,110
they go I got a www PA SI TI SS or gets

772
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:12,730
practice it stands for philosophers and

773
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:15,010
critical thinkers in senior schools oh

774
00:29:18,750 --> 00:29:16,960
man I'm going to be continued to

775
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:18,760
contribute and I hope other people join

776
00:29:22,140 --> 00:29:20,650
obviously executions thank you very much

777
00:29:23,550 --> 00:29:22,150
I'm like McRae's contributions just

778
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:23,560
recently too so it's great to have that

779
00:29:27,060 --> 00:29:26,050
stuff up there yeah and and I love to

780
00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:27,070
have some of this stuff up there but

781
00:29:36,290 --> 00:29:28,630
both what's here again we will start

782
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:38,010
obviously with that sound in the

783
00:29:42,090 --> 00:29:40,090
background music where we're clearly at

784
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:42,100
the Australian National Conference over

785
00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:43,510
here in adelaide and i'm sitting here

786
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:45,340
talking to Mike McGraw who's an old

787
00:29:48,780 --> 00:29:47,410
friend of mine I previously interviewed

788
00:29:50,820 --> 00:29:48,790
him for the tape Oddcast and Here I am

789
00:29:52,740 --> 00:29:50,830
talking to him for the for the good old

790
00:29:54,570 --> 00:29:52,750
skeptic zone Mike it's been a

791
00:29:56,490 --> 00:29:54,580
fascinating conference it's been

792
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:56,500
interesting in yeah yeah in fact this is

793
00:29:59,820 --> 00:29:57,970
probably the first time I've seen it

794
00:30:01,680 --> 00:29:59,830
quite quite heavily biased towards

795
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:01,690
education and your own presentation

796
00:30:05,730 --> 00:30:03,490
talked about your own views about

797
00:30:07,890 --> 00:30:05,740
science education and how skepticism can

798
00:30:10,650 --> 00:30:07,900
be involved it seems to be a bit of a

799
00:30:11,910 --> 00:30:10,660
focus of mine yeah it does and I

800
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:11,920
particularly like the way that you

801
00:30:15,570 --> 00:30:13,570
suggested several professional groups

802
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:15,580
that skeptics could probably tap into

803
00:30:19,140 --> 00:30:17,530
and in fact it was a question of mine

804
00:30:20,820 --> 00:30:19,150
how do skeptics get in touch with

805
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:20,830
science communicators and Science in a

806
00:30:24,510 --> 00:30:23,170
more proactive way I think skeptic

807
00:30:26,340 --> 00:30:24,520
groups need to have a better idea of

808
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:26,350
what they're actually aiming towards

809
00:30:31,860 --> 00:30:29,310
before they they go into any real

810
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:31,870
contact with any groups or deciding who

811
00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:34,210
they want to talk to problem i tend to

812
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:37,480
find is the the actual goal since you're

813
00:30:43,380 --> 00:30:41,110
very vague it's like this this gray area

814
00:30:45,390 --> 00:30:43,390
of our will we want people to not

815
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:45,400
believe in psychics weed weed on people

816
00:30:48,990 --> 00:30:47,170
to pay psychics we don't want people to

817
00:30:50,490 --> 00:30:49,000
go to a homeopath we don't we want kids

818
00:30:52,530 --> 00:30:50,500
to be critical thinking stress what you

819
00:30:54,060 --> 00:30:52,540
want even educators don't really know

820
00:30:56,460 --> 00:30:54,070
what the term in critical thinking means

821
00:30:58,560 --> 00:30:56,470
it's not a straightforward simple

822
00:31:01,500 --> 00:30:58,570
definition it's a whole group of skills

823
00:31:04,410 --> 00:31:01,510
it's a collection of them values and

824
00:31:05,910 --> 00:31:04,420
attitudes so to have this blanket idea I

825
00:31:08,010 --> 00:31:05,920
think that's a problem is it's very sim

826
00:31:10,890 --> 00:31:08,020
ago we want people to be skeptical we

827
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:10,900
want people to be critical but really

828
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:12,610
what does it look like but I think once

829
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:14,080
you've got an idea of what the goal is

830
00:31:17,970 --> 00:31:16,240
and how to approach it you can then

831
00:31:20,250 --> 00:31:17,980
evaluate it as to see you know how

832
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:20,260
effective you are if you don't have any

833
00:31:23,310 --> 00:31:21,610
of those things if you don't have goals

834
00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:23,320
or an idea of how to actually see if

835
00:31:28,290 --> 00:31:26,020
your goal has succeeded then you know

836
00:31:30,060 --> 00:31:28,300
I'm not sure really what what's

837
00:31:31,710 --> 00:31:30,070
happening me and I can't see whether

838
00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:31,720
skeptics all what skeptics are really

839
00:31:35,490 --> 00:31:33,670
doing yeah you made the point of

840
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:35,500
critical literacy was perhaps a better

841
00:31:39,540 --> 00:31:37,330
term to be using what does that involve

842
00:31:42,060 --> 00:31:39,550
our critical literacy is probably the

843
00:31:44,550 --> 00:31:42,070
latest in terms that is being bandied

844
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:44,560
around I know people love to have a

845
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:46,510
common language to discuss when it's

846
00:31:49,890 --> 00:31:48,010
talking about things so critical

847
00:31:53,250 --> 00:31:49,900
literacy is the least my understanding

848
00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:53,260
of it the ability to take in information

849
00:31:56,220 --> 00:31:54,880
that you receive through our texts so

850
00:31:59,340 --> 00:31:56,230
you're reading it listening to it

851
00:32:01,920 --> 00:31:59,350
watching it and evaluate it for its

852
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:01,930
usefulness and by that I mean obviously

853
00:32:06,180 --> 00:32:04,330
information you get you want to look at

854
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:06,190
to see see I don't like using words true

855
00:32:10,940 --> 00:32:07,930
or false i think as a philosophy behind

856
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:10,950
that sep says it's absolute and

857
00:32:15,780 --> 00:32:13,450
obviously skepticism is not looking at

858
00:32:18,030 --> 00:32:15,790
absolutes it's a confidence in things so

859
00:32:20,010 --> 00:32:18,040
i guess usefulness is how confident you

860
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:20,020
are that a bit of information you get is

861
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:22,960
going to do what you wanted to do so

862
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:24,310
when you make a decision on things you

863
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:25,570
want the prediction to come true at the

864
00:32:29,610 --> 00:32:26,890
end you know I decide I want to go to

865
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:29,620
the shops and buy an ice cream I'm

866
00:32:33,270 --> 00:32:31,330
making a decision that you know there's

867
00:32:34,470 --> 00:32:33,280
gonna be a scream there yeah I don't

868
00:32:35,910 --> 00:32:34,480
want that to be pretty true because

869
00:32:37,260 --> 00:32:35,920
otherwise I'm wasting my time so when

870
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:37,270
you make a decision to do something you

871
00:32:39,990 --> 00:32:38,770
have an idea in the end what you're

872
00:32:41,730 --> 00:32:40,000
going to be doing and you want the

873
00:32:44,130 --> 00:32:41,740
information for that to be fairly useful

874
00:32:46,950 --> 00:32:44,140
so it's not necessarily science class

875
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:46,960
space this notion of finding evidence

876
00:32:51,570 --> 00:32:49,570
and finding what could be possible maybe

877
00:32:53,970 --> 00:32:51,580
not truth but certainly a reasonable

878
00:32:55,950 --> 00:32:53,980
conclusion by the end of it it could be

879
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:55,960
taught in English fruits it's also the

880
00:32:59,250 --> 00:32:57,610
problem I think I guess we have in

881
00:33:00,810 --> 00:32:59,260
approaching education from a discipline

882
00:33:03,630 --> 00:33:00,820
based background yeah life isn't

883
00:33:05,910 --> 00:33:03,640
discipline-based we don't go out each

884
00:33:08,130 --> 00:33:05,920
day and go I know using maths understand

885
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:08,140
back i'm going to do science I couldn't

886
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:09,250
we just don't know

887
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:11,770
that's it you do things so I might be

888
00:33:16,050 --> 00:33:13,810
drawing yes if you ask me I compressible

889
00:33:18,270 --> 00:33:16,060
I guess that's a nice thing but I don't

890
00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:18,280
have that in mind so we we have skills

891
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:19,630
that we applied a whole range of things

892
00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:22,330
i think the the point i'm at now and

893
00:33:26,790 --> 00:33:24,190
understanding how things work has to do

894
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:26,800
with more values they're necessarily

895
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:29,290
just a skill or just content you almost

896
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:31,090
say that there's there's three levels to

897
00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:33,370
it fundamentally you need to have a

898
00:33:38,670 --> 00:33:36,190
value that appreciates us an objective

899
00:33:41,180 --> 00:33:38,680
reality you know if you can't have this

900
00:33:44,610 --> 00:33:41,190
epistle mala gee that kind of says i

901
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:44,620
will everyone has their own objective

902
00:33:48,030 --> 00:33:45,850
reality and you know everyone's entitled

903
00:33:50,010 --> 00:33:48,040
to that it just it doesn't work in my

904
00:33:51,390 --> 00:33:50,020
view that's a fairly important value

905
00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:51,400
however me just to go and say what

906
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:54,160
you're now adopt my values that also

907
00:33:58,590 --> 00:33:56,530
doesn't quite work well we raise the

908
00:34:00,120 --> 00:33:58,600
issue at one point during one of the

909
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:00,130
lectures that Richard Saunders was doing

910
00:34:04,170 --> 00:34:02,050
one of the audience members raised the

911
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:04,180
question Aboriginality and how different

912
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:06,370
cultural views might that's right

913
00:34:09,780 --> 00:34:08,169
something it's really tricky to try to

914
00:34:11,790 --> 00:34:09,790
get across different cultural groups we

915
00:34:13,230 --> 00:34:11,800
we often think of cultures as being

916
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:13,240
something that's radically different to

917
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:15,610
the everyday that we associate with but

918
00:34:18,300 --> 00:34:16,480
if you think about the everyday you

919
00:34:19,409 --> 00:34:18,310
associate with there's many sub cultures

920
00:34:21,869 --> 00:34:19,419
within them you're going to come across

921
00:34:23,790 --> 00:34:21,879
a whole range of groups and they haven't

922
00:34:26,369 --> 00:34:23,800
come to the conclusion that the they've

923
00:34:28,379 --> 00:34:26,379
come to purely based on stupidity or our

924
00:34:31,649 --> 00:34:28,389
lack of education they've come to those

925
00:34:34,169 --> 00:34:31,659
conclusions based on values so they're

926
00:34:36,260 --> 00:34:34,179
raised with the particular appreciation

927
00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:36,270
of beliefs of their family or they've

928
00:34:43,379 --> 00:34:39,520
they've come to a particular conclusion

929
00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:43,389
based on the they're friends so the

930
00:34:47,490 --> 00:34:45,040
peers that they might know that they

931
00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:47,500
might like and they're huge influence on

932
00:34:51,450 --> 00:34:50,169
people so to have the the attitude

933
00:34:53,190 --> 00:34:51,460
especially as an educator that you can

934
00:34:55,169 --> 00:34:53,200
walk into any particular classroom and

935
00:34:57,900 --> 00:34:55,179
anywhere from Northern Territory to

936
00:35:00,240 --> 00:34:57,910
anywhere in the world local be a longer

937
00:35:01,950 --> 00:35:00,250
to central sigma that's right I've got

938
00:35:05,310 --> 00:35:01,960
the same class I will now teach science

939
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:05,320
it's very tricky to do I have actually

940
00:35:08,430 --> 00:35:06,130
worked out in some indigenous

941
00:35:09,010 --> 00:35:08,440
communities and the experience has been

942
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:09,020
outstanding

943
00:35:15,250 --> 00:35:13,040
and I mean Aboriginal kids I found them

944
00:35:17,770 --> 00:35:15,260
perhaps you know a whole mix of reasons

945
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:17,780
of really great problem solvers yeah you

946
00:35:23,110 --> 00:35:20,090
give them a situation and give them some

947
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:23,120
materials and their mind just seems too

948
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:25,310
you know branch out and find these most

949
00:35:29,260 --> 00:35:27,890
radical ways of dealing with it it has

950
00:35:30,730 --> 00:35:29,270
blown me away like just in the

951
00:35:32,350 --> 00:35:30,740
experience I've had from all different

952
00:35:33,790 --> 00:35:32,360
cultural backgrounds and teaches kids

953
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:33,800
just you know hand them stuff and

954
00:35:38,350 --> 00:35:35,690
banging they'll go away with it now the

955
00:35:39,460 --> 00:35:38,360
values they tend to have also vary quite

956
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:39,470
a bit they will tend to have a

957
00:35:42,730 --> 00:35:40,970
hierarchical structure where you have

958
00:35:44,740 --> 00:35:42,740
elders that will believe some things and

959
00:35:47,470 --> 00:35:44,750
you know pass on that respect so you

960
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:47,480
respect your elders family groups are

961
00:35:51,610 --> 00:35:49,610
amazing in a lot of indigenous

962
00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:51,620
communities the concept of a family

963
00:35:55,450 --> 00:35:53,240
extends far beyond what we appreciate we

964
00:35:57,010 --> 00:35:55,460
have very much a nuclear understanding

965
00:35:59,140 --> 00:35:57,020
your family which is mum dad couple of

966
00:36:01,120 --> 00:35:59,150
kids and then you extend away from that

967
00:36:04,060 --> 00:36:01,130
doesn't really work in the same way I

968
00:36:06,490 --> 00:36:04,070
met one guy who introduced me to what

969
00:36:09,460 --> 00:36:06,500
who we call his dad no an a I shook

970
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:09,470
hands and then he had hitches me to

971
00:36:13,270 --> 00:36:10,970
another guy who were called his dad so

972
00:36:15,430 --> 00:36:13,280
which one is later found out neither one

973
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:15,440
was biological father but there was a

974
00:36:19,420 --> 00:36:17,570
respected term well this guy went you

975
00:36:21,490 --> 00:36:19,430
are now my son and so that was his dad

976
00:36:22,810 --> 00:36:21,500
yeah and happened in a couple of

977
00:36:25,150 --> 00:36:22,820
different ways so again aren't his

978
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:25,160
uncles cousins has nothing to with that

979
00:36:28,330 --> 00:36:26,450
biological blood relationship

980
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:28,340
necessarily it's a completely different

981
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:32,690
system but the values itself involves a

982
00:36:36,070 --> 00:36:34,130
different way of communicating that if I

983
00:36:38,410 --> 00:36:36,080
had walked in and said something about

984
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:38,420
you know your cousin and I'm thinking a

985
00:36:41,110 --> 00:36:40,010
biological direct relationship like that

986
00:36:43,420 --> 00:36:41,120
they're not going to interpret it that

987
00:36:45,970 --> 00:36:43,430
way the value system and the way of

988
00:36:47,770 --> 00:36:45,980
communicating about various terms is

989
00:36:49,630 --> 00:36:47,780
slightly different and so that comes

990
00:36:51,940 --> 00:36:49,640
back down to science if I walk in and

991
00:36:54,820 --> 00:36:51,950
start talking about this objective

992
00:36:56,530 --> 00:36:54,830
reality and a system of rules it just

993
00:36:58,480 --> 00:36:56,540
doesn't have that same connection within

994
00:36:59,800 --> 00:36:58,490
those families so whilst in school they

995
00:37:01,150 --> 00:36:59,810
might have that they go home and they'll

996
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:01,160
adopt a different way of thinking about

997
00:37:04,750 --> 00:37:02,450
things different way of communicating

998
00:37:06,130 --> 00:37:04,760
and they'll learn to separate the things

999
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:06,140
that they talk about in school with the

1000
00:37:09,790 --> 00:37:08,090
things I talk about outside and so

1001
00:37:11,890 --> 00:37:09,800
there's two different systems I found

1002
00:37:13,970 --> 00:37:11,900
that myself in terms of students who had

1003
00:37:17,100 --> 00:37:13,980
successfully managed

1004
00:37:20,010 --> 00:37:17,110
prizes for well so it managed to

1005
00:37:21,930 --> 00:37:20,020
successfully enter in their projects for

1006
00:37:23,970 --> 00:37:21,940
a particular skeptics competition they'd

1007
00:37:25,590 --> 00:37:23,980
say okay I have analyzed tarot cards and

1008
00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:25,600
yet they would then quite casually tell

1009
00:37:29,790 --> 00:37:27,280
me about their family's belief in Feng

1010
00:37:31,590 --> 00:37:29,800
Shui and how they saw no exactly and how

1011
00:37:32,670 --> 00:37:31,600
they continue to support it exactly and

1012
00:37:34,140 --> 00:37:32,680
people have different understandings of

1013
00:37:36,750 --> 00:37:34,150
what they mean by those things as well

1014
00:37:37,890 --> 00:37:36,760
you're talking previously about a girl

1015
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:37,900
who was talking about the psychological

1016
00:37:41,370 --> 00:37:39,610
help that a psychic might be able to

1017
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:41,380
offer yeah I don't think she was

1018
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:43,210
necessarily talking about the actual

1019
00:37:47,430 --> 00:37:45,850
psychic powers but rather the means of

1020
00:37:48,660 --> 00:37:47,440
communicating with people to help them

1021
00:37:50,490 --> 00:37:48,670
think nothing kind that quite a bit

1022
00:37:52,980 --> 00:37:50,500
people say I use tarot to help me

1023
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:52,990
psychologically yea once again people

1024
00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:54,250
are talking about different things there

1025
00:37:58,260 --> 00:37:55,990
we have to be careful when we talk about

1026
00:38:00,180 --> 00:37:58,270
superstitions lot of people say oh no

1027
00:38:01,710 --> 00:38:00,190
touch wood does that necessarily mean

1028
00:38:03,690 --> 00:38:01,720
they're really thinking I'd do it all

1029
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:03,700
the time even today for example when

1030
00:38:07,290 --> 00:38:05,410
talking to someone and you are nearby

1031
00:38:08,730 --> 00:38:07,300
and I said I'll touch what I'll get this

1032
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:08,740
done that's right and I believe you and

1033
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:10,690
your mother for example I shields my

1034
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:12,250
mother says touch water she doesn't

1035
00:38:16,650 --> 00:38:14,170
really think that is good yeah exactly

1036
00:38:17,850 --> 00:38:16,660
and we we have those things and so once

1037
00:38:19,620 --> 00:38:17,860
again when it comes to skeptics

1038
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:19,630
communicating with different cultural

1039
00:38:24,030 --> 00:38:22,090
groups you really have to be careful

1040
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:24,040
about what it is you're really talking

1041
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:26,530
about with that simply saying bah

1042
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:28,480
humbugs or superstitions and someone's

1043
00:38:31,230 --> 00:38:29,920
goes touch wood and you start on busting

1044
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:31,240
them for you yeah they're having that

1045
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:33,430
pregnant it's a social practice they

1046
00:38:36,570 --> 00:38:35,110
might not be sin there going oh I don't

1047
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:36,580
really mean it but they might not also

1048
00:38:39,930 --> 00:38:38,770
be touching wood because I really feel

1049
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:39,940
that that's going to have some direct

1050
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:42,130
objective outcome it's a social practice

1051
00:38:45,930 --> 00:38:44,170
I find it a comfort thing myself a lot

1052
00:38:48,030 --> 00:38:45,940
of people do I think probably my last

1053
00:38:49,380 --> 00:38:48,040
question revolves around something

1054
00:38:51,570 --> 00:38:49,390
that's been on my mind and quite a few

1055
00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:51,580
people's minds for some time the Daniel

1056
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:53,110
Loxton esterday where do we go from here

1057
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:54,880
definitely what would be your final

1058
00:38:59,400 --> 00:38:57,010
point I guess for skeptics in terms so

1059
00:39:00,270 --> 00:38:59,410
here's an idea of where you should go

1060
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:00,280
from here what would be your

1061
00:39:03,540 --> 00:39:02,290
contribution I think that they've got a

1062
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:03,550
the first thing I'm gonna do some goals

1063
00:39:08,130 --> 00:39:05,770
go here is the goal this is what we want

1064
00:39:09,510 --> 00:39:08,140
to see ya the goal cannot be we we must

1065
00:39:11,250 --> 00:39:09,520
have Radek 8 these belief systems but

1066
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:11,260
rather oh we must have all kids as

1067
00:39:14,730 --> 00:39:12,970
critical thinkers exactly because that's

1068
00:39:17,340 --> 00:39:14,740
to thank you know something solid that

1069
00:39:20,849 --> 00:39:17,350
says we can see this if ya my goal is to

1070
00:39:23,099 --> 00:39:20,859
have you know in the future

1071
00:39:24,749 --> 00:39:23,109
X number of kids winning this

1072
00:39:26,670 --> 00:39:24,759
competition I own it something solid

1073
00:39:28,799 --> 00:39:26,680
they can actually brain 'jim not a not

1074
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:28,809
being in my community my school for

1075
00:39:32,430 --> 00:39:30,880
example or maybe some doing a proper

1076
00:39:34,259 --> 00:39:32,440
investigation into that's right

1077
00:39:36,839 --> 00:39:34,269
something where you can evaluate it and

1078
00:39:38,789 --> 00:39:36,849
go the goal i had has now been achieved

1079
00:39:40,289 --> 00:39:38,799
now we go the next step if you don't

1080
00:39:41,729 --> 00:39:40,299
have solid goals then you can't see if

1081
00:39:43,499 --> 00:39:41,739
you're actually succeeding anything you

1082
00:39:44,309 --> 00:39:43,509
can't see the progress you make you

1083
00:39:45,599 --> 00:39:44,319
don't know if you're making any

1084
00:39:47,489 --> 00:39:45,609
difference in the community whatsoever

1085
00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:47,499
so your first need goals then you need a

1086
00:39:51,359 --> 00:39:48,910
way of actually looking to see if you've

1087
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:51,369
achieved those goals only then once

1088
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:52,690
you've got those two things can you say

1089
00:39:56,609 --> 00:39:54,400
who can help me actually achieve these

1090
00:39:58,349 --> 00:39:56,619
You Know Who am I community is doing

1091
00:40:00,720 --> 00:39:58,359
this already or can I make connections

1092
00:40:02,489 --> 00:40:00,730
with and discuss this with I think once

1093
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:02,499
you've made those three steps then we

1094
00:40:07,019 --> 00:40:05,650
will see some changes until then you

1095
00:40:09,390 --> 00:40:07,029
know I know Richard was talking before

1096
00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:09,400
about preaching to the choir which is

1097
00:40:14,849 --> 00:40:12,190
not a bad thing we do need quiet yeah

1098
00:40:16,620 --> 00:40:14,859
and I do need to be reinforced and

1099
00:40:19,049 --> 00:40:16,630
spoken to anointed to feel as if they're

1100
00:40:21,299 --> 00:40:19,059
they're achieving some of all ages both

1101
00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:21,309
definitely not even particularly sure of

1102
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:22,569
their gender as I raised in my own

1103
00:40:26,130 --> 00:40:24,160
speech here and we've now got a choir

1104
00:40:27,749 --> 00:40:26,140
which is fantastic however what are they

1105
00:40:29,519 --> 00:40:27,759
going to be singing next I think it's a

1106
00:40:31,289 --> 00:40:29,529
question and where are they going to go

1107
00:40:34,799 --> 00:40:31,299
from here is something when you to

1108
00:40:37,979 --> 00:40:34,809
address thanks to everybody who helped

1109
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:37,989
organize the 2008 Australian skeptics

1110
00:40:43,549 --> 00:40:40,690
National Convention the next convention

1111
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:43,559
will be held in brisbane queensland in

1112
00:40:56,819 --> 00:40:54,130
2009 show your skepticism to the world

1113
00:40:58,979 --> 00:40:56,829
by wearing a skeptic zone t-shirt just

1114
00:41:01,440 --> 00:40:58,989
the thing for keeping UFOs and ghosts

1115
00:41:04,739 --> 00:41:01,450
out of your face available in many

1116
00:41:06,620 --> 00:41:04,749
colors and in women's and men's sizes we

1117
00:41:09,329 --> 00:41:06,630
even have some for kids and babies

1118
00:41:18,450 --> 00:41:09,339
skeptics own t-shirts order yours today

1119
00:41:26,950 --> 00:41:21,820
now it's time for dr. Rachel reports

1120
00:41:29,620 --> 00:41:26,960
with dr. Rachel Dunlop hello everyone

1121
00:41:30,580 --> 00:41:29,630
and welcome to dr. Rachel reports today

1122
00:41:32,530 --> 00:41:30,590
I want to talk to you about

1123
00:41:36,070 --> 00:41:32,540
complementary and alternative medicines

1124
00:41:38,740 --> 00:41:36,080
also known as cam or woo in pharmacies

1125
00:41:40,330 --> 00:41:38,750
or drug stores across Australia and of

1126
00:41:42,370 --> 00:41:40,340
course there is way too much to cover in

1127
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:42,380
this short segment so I've chosen my top

1128
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:44,210
three to present to you in some detail

1129
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:46,609
you can see a full list of my other bug

1130
00:41:52,330 --> 00:41:48,530
bears on the accompanying blog for dr.

1131
00:41:54,460 --> 00:41:52,340
Rachel reports at skeptic zone TV but

1132
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:54,470
for now wandering to your local

1133
00:41:58,150 --> 00:41:56,210
Australian pharmacy any day of the week

1134
00:42:00,760 --> 00:41:58,160
and stacked alongside the legitimate

1135
00:42:02,830 --> 00:42:00,770
science based medicines you'll find all

1136
00:42:05,620 --> 00:42:02,840
manner of snake oils and magic potions

1137
00:42:07,810 --> 00:42:05,630
from the relatively innocuous vitamin

1138
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:07,820
and mineral supplements however evidence

1139
00:42:12,310 --> 00:42:09,970
for their efficacy remains controversial

1140
00:42:15,940 --> 00:42:12,320
to the more bizarre like iridology

1141
00:42:17,650 --> 00:42:15,950
homeopathy and ear candles and should

1142
00:42:20,380 --> 00:42:17,660
you need professional advice about which

1143
00:42:22,030 --> 00:42:20,390
way is best for you well in Australia

1144
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:22,040
many pharmacies have a consultant

1145
00:42:27,849 --> 00:42:24,410
naturopath and iridology whom you can

1146
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:27,859
usually see free of charge let's begin

1147
00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:29,930
with my personal favorite ear candles

1148
00:42:34,109 --> 00:42:32,480
the practice of ear candling involves

1149
00:42:36,940 --> 00:42:34,119
placing a long candle in your ear

1150
00:42:38,950 --> 00:42:36,950
lighting the far end and supposedly a

1151
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:38,960
vacuum is created drawing wax from your

1152
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:41,510
ear canal some practitioners will also

1153
00:42:46,750 --> 00:42:44,570
tell you they draw out bad energy and as

1154
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:46,760
our good friend Loretta Maron says be

1155
00:42:50,109 --> 00:42:48,410
careful when walking past a session of

1156
00:42:53,500 --> 00:42:50,119
this nonsense you might be struck by

1157
00:42:55,150 --> 00:42:53,510
unexpected negative energy in my opinion

1158
00:42:57,460 --> 00:42:55,160
the only thing ear candles are good for

1159
00:43:00,310 --> 00:42:57,470
is dripping wax in your ears and setting

1160
00:43:01,930 --> 00:43:00,320
fire to your curtains unfortunately in

1161
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:01,940
Australia this product is listed with

1162
00:43:07,240 --> 00:43:04,130
the TGA which is the equivalent of the

1163
00:43:10,109 --> 00:43:07,250
FDA giving them unju legitimacy which

1164
00:43:13,599 --> 00:43:10,119
they don't deserve because they do not

1165
00:43:15,430 --> 00:43:13,609
iridology iridology is usually

1166
00:43:17,650 --> 00:43:15,440
administered by visiting naturopath or

1167
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:17,660
iridology stand a pharmacy next to my

1168
00:43:21,460 --> 00:43:19,760
place advertises this rubbish on a large

1169
00:43:23,550 --> 00:43:21,470
sandwich bought out the front you can

1170
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:23,560
see the pictures on my accompanying blog

1171
00:43:28,030 --> 00:43:25,970
now iridology originated with the

1172
00:43:31,450 --> 00:43:28,040
hungarian physician eggs not

1173
00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:31,460
pixley in the 1860s when he was treating

1174
00:43:35,950 --> 00:43:33,470
a broken leg and noticed a dark streak

1175
00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:35,960
in the patient's eye he then spent years

1176
00:43:40,180 --> 00:43:38,510
mapping marks in patients irises which

1177
00:43:42,970 --> 00:43:40,190
he has sociated with various illnesses

1178
00:43:45,190 --> 00:43:42,980
and this resulted in a variation on the

1179
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:45,200
iridology SMAP of the eye still used by

1180
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:48,710
practitioners today unfortunately as it

1181
00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:50,450
is the case with many alternative

1182
00:43:54,670 --> 00:43:52,880
therapies large variability exists

1183
00:43:57,460 --> 00:43:54,680
between iridology s when it comes to

1184
00:43:59,740 --> 00:43:57,470
diagnosis but collectively it seems

1185
00:44:01,960 --> 00:43:59,750
these people are most afraid of wheat

1186
00:44:05,050 --> 00:44:01,970
and will usually advise some kind of

1187
00:44:08,350 --> 00:44:05,060
special diet in a report published in

1188
00:44:11,260 --> 00:44:08,360
the australian doctor in 2004 a GP

1189
00:44:14,110 --> 00:44:11,270
professor max came in posing undercover

1190
00:44:16,660 --> 00:44:14,120
as a tired teacher was prescribed all

1191
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:16,670
manner of special diets but never told

1192
00:44:20,380 --> 00:44:18,410
you need to get more sleep and

1193
00:44:22,990 --> 00:44:20,390
interestingly eighty percent of

1194
00:44:27,730 --> 00:44:23,000
tiredness is caused by a simple lack of

1195
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:27,740
sleep homeopathy homeopathy was invented

1196
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:29,810
by Samuel Hahnemann back in the 18th

1197
00:44:34,660 --> 00:44:31,850
century and it's based on the concept of

1198
00:44:37,180 --> 00:44:34,670
like treats like that is a concentrated

1199
00:44:38,740 --> 00:44:37,190
solution of the toxin is Sir cust which

1200
00:44:41,530 --> 00:44:38,750
is basically just shaking it vigorously

1201
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:41,540
to instill the memory of the original

1202
00:44:45,580 --> 00:44:43,610
substance in the solution and this is

1203
00:44:48,010 --> 00:44:45,590
known as the mother tincture which is

1204
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:48,020
then diluted extensively to beyond the

1205
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:49,280
point where there is any possibility

1206
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:51,530
that any molecules from the original

1207
00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:54,050
solution remain now Richard Dawkins

1208
00:44:59,110 --> 00:44:55,910
describes it in his recent documentary

1209
00:45:01,300 --> 00:44:59,120
enemies of reason as similar to placing

1210
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:01,310
a drop of the active ingredient in all

1211
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:03,680
of the oceans so basically you are

1212
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:07,280
buying very expensive water now the most

1213
00:45:11,290 --> 00:45:09,200
heinous thing about homeopathy is the

1214
00:45:14,170 --> 00:45:11,300
marketing of homeopathic vaccines and

1215
00:45:16,990 --> 00:45:14,180
medicine for children and babies whilst

1216
00:45:19,750 --> 00:45:17,000
cures for colic are bad enough in a most

1217
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:19,760
disgusting example of deceit in 2006 in

1218
00:45:24,130 --> 00:45:22,010
Australia a manufacturer of natural and

1219
00:45:25,630 --> 00:45:24,140
homeopathic medicine was forced to

1220
00:45:28,930 --> 00:45:25,640
withdraw a vaccine for meningococcal

1221
00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:28,940
disease now meningococcal disease is a

1222
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:31,370
rapid onset and often fatal bacterial

1223
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:34,310
infection which causes meningitis which

1224
00:45:39,070 --> 00:45:35,930
is inflammation of the lining of the

1225
00:45:41,530 --> 00:45:39,080
brain and spinal cord and or septicemia

1226
00:45:43,270 --> 00:45:41,540
which is blood poisoning

1227
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:43,280
and the media coverage and subsequent

1228
00:45:46,660 --> 00:45:44,930
withdrawal of this product was partly

1229
00:45:50,110 --> 00:45:46,670
due to whistleblowing by the Australian

1230
00:45:51,730 --> 00:45:50,120
skeptics who in 2005 produced a press

1231
00:45:53,830 --> 00:45:51,740
release after being informed at the

1232
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:53,840
parents babies and children's Expo in

1233
00:45:58,770 --> 00:45:55,610
Sydney that you can vaccinate your

1234
00:46:00,910 --> 00:45:58,780
children with homeopathic preparations

1235
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:00,920
so why should we be concerned about

1236
00:46:05,410 --> 00:46:03,170
these so-called medicines well in the

1237
00:46:07,660 --> 00:46:05,420
case of homeopathy as I've just told you

1238
00:46:09,970 --> 00:46:07,670
this stuff does nothing shouldn't we

1239
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:09,980
just leave it alone or absolutely not in

1240
00:46:14,650 --> 00:46:12,410
fact homeopathy can do home since it

1241
00:46:16,420 --> 00:46:14,660
does nothing at all so whilst you may

1242
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:16,430
think your baby is vaccinated from the

1243
00:46:21,580 --> 00:46:18,770
fatal meningococcal see strain they are

1244
00:46:23,350 --> 00:46:21,590
in fact at risk of dying and putting

1245
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:23,360
this woo alongside pharmaceutical

1246
00:46:29,140 --> 00:46:25,490
science based medicine immediately lends

1247
00:46:31,090 --> 00:46:29,150
it legitimacy in Australia pharmacists

1248
00:46:33,310 --> 00:46:31,100
undergo very similar training to science

1249
00:46:35,830 --> 00:46:33,320
graduates so why do these well-qualified

1250
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:35,840
critically thinking science literate and

1251
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:37,610
respected members of the community

1252
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:40,450
tolerate quackery in their dispensaries

1253
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:42,890
well in Australia at least part of the

1254
00:46:47,170 --> 00:46:44,810
problem is that large manufacturers of

1255
00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:47,180
natural medicines also own chains of

1256
00:46:52,660 --> 00:46:50,150
pharmacies for example a company in

1257
00:46:54,850 --> 00:46:52,670
Queensland which manufacturers several

1258
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:54,860
natural medicine lines also owns the

1259
00:46:59,260 --> 00:46:57,530
trading name for two pharmacies so you

1260
00:47:01,270 --> 00:46:59,270
can see it in their interest to promote

1261
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:01,280
all their products and what better way

1262
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:02,930
to do this then through the respected

1263
00:47:07,330 --> 00:47:05,450
white-coated pharmacist in my opinion

1264
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:07,340
it's purely and simply a money-making

1265
00:47:11,980 --> 00:47:10,130
exercise and the biggest problem in

1266
00:47:14,590 --> 00:47:11,990
Australia lies with the legislation

1267
00:47:16,210 --> 00:47:14,600
where woo or cam can get a government

1268
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:16,220
listing combined with an

1269
00:47:19,750 --> 00:47:17,810
official-looking number and this

1270
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:19,760
immediately provides credibility to the

1271
00:47:24,190 --> 00:47:21,920
product I recently had a conversation

1272
00:47:26,020 --> 00:47:24,200
with the respected neurologist president

1273
00:47:28,180 --> 00:47:26,030
of the New England skeptical society and

1274
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:28,190
distinguished podcaster dr. Steven

1275
00:47:32,620 --> 00:47:30,530
novella regarding complementary and

1276
00:47:34,510 --> 00:47:32,630
alternative medicine he expressed his

1277
00:47:36,250 --> 00:47:34,520
dismay to me that more scientists and

1278
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:36,260
doctors don't get angry about this stuff

1279
00:47:41,020 --> 00:47:38,570
well I'm here to tell you this little

1280
00:47:43,690 --> 00:47:41,030
black duck does and perhaps that's where

1281
00:47:45,910 --> 00:47:43,700
we can start the tide turning in some

1282
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:45,920
sense we are lucky in Australia in that

1283
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:48,170
we have a one-woman terror of the TGA

1284
00:47:53,020 --> 00:47:51,170
known as Loretta Marin who continues to

1285
00:47:54,650 --> 00:47:53,030
lobby the government and has in fact had

1286
00:47:58,250 --> 00:47:54,660
considerable success in

1287
00:48:00,050 --> 00:47:58,260
several products delisted but sadly it

1288
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:00,060
seems the wu in pharmacies is not

1289
00:48:04,100 --> 00:48:02,400
limited to cam I was in a pharmacy on

1290
00:48:06,410 --> 00:48:04,110
the northern beaches of Sydney some time

1291
00:48:08,930 --> 00:48:06,420
ago and was shocked to see books by the

1292
00:48:12,590 --> 00:48:08,940
notorious psychic Sylvia Browne for sale

1293
00:48:14,540 --> 00:48:12,600
alongside the twee porcelain gifts I kid

1294
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:14,550
you not there is nothing scientific

1295
00:48:20,060 --> 00:48:18,480
about that you can find the relevant

1296
00:48:23,330 --> 00:48:20,070
links for this story on my accompanying

1297
00:48:25,370 --> 00:48:23,340
blog at skeptic zone TV and if you have

1298
00:48:27,620 --> 00:48:25,380
a science-based medical issue you want

1299
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:27,630
dr. Reiter to investigate feel free to

1300
00:48:33,110 --> 00:48:30,810
email me at Rachel at skeptic zone TV or

1301
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:33,120
visit our website and go to the about Us

1302
00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:36,510
page to contact me until next time this

1303
00:48:56,620 --> 00:48:54,760
astronomy cast it takes a fact space

1304
00:48:58,540 --> 00:48:56,630
journey through the cosmos as it offers

1305
00:49:01,210 --> 00:48:58,550
listeners weekly discussions on

1306
00:49:04,089 --> 00:49:01,220
astronomical topics ranging from planets

1307
00:49:06,430 --> 00:49:04,099
to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of

1308
00:49:07,450 --> 00:49:06,440
Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela

1309
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:07,460
gave southern illinois university

1310
00:49:11,980 --> 00:49:10,130
edwardsville this show brings the

1311
00:49:14,410 --> 00:49:11,990
questions of an avid astronomy lover

1312
00:49:16,510 --> 00:49:14,420
directly to an astronomer together

1313
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:16,520
Fraser and I explore what is known and

1314
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:18,050
being discovered about the universe

1315
00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:20,810
around us join us each week as we take a

1316
00:49:33,579 --> 00:49:22,910
fax space journey through the cosmos at

1317
00:49:40,890 --> 00:49:33,589
astronomy cast com join us now for

1318
00:49:46,030 --> 00:49:43,720
and welcome once again to the think tank

1319
00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:46,040
we've made our way here to the earth to

1320
00:49:50,260 --> 00:49:48,710
the club up the street and Amanda Rose I

1321
00:49:52,089 --> 00:49:50,270
must say is had a very nice night

1322
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:52,099
tonight here at the clock we've had a

1323
00:49:56,930 --> 00:49:54,450
very auspicious start

1324
00:49:58,670 --> 00:49:56,940
we have before we started recording a

1325
00:50:02,660 --> 00:49:58,680
man to run a couple of the raffle prizes

1326
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:02,670
of glorious gift cards it was a glorious

1327
00:50:09,170 --> 00:50:05,010
gift cards that how you two dollars if

1328
00:50:11,180 --> 00:50:09,180
cars bullies well done i'm here with

1329
00:50:13,220 --> 00:50:11,190
amanda rose dr. Rachel done one hello

1330
00:50:15,470 --> 00:50:13,230
Richard and Michael wala hand thanks for

1331
00:50:18,109 --> 00:50:15,480
having me and we're once again here at

1332
00:50:21,050 --> 00:50:18,119
think tank ready to think and drink and

1333
00:50:23,569 --> 00:50:21,060
just before I know just before we start

1334
00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:23,579
the think tank I just like to mention to

1335
00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:25,800
everybody that our very first episode of

1336
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:27,660
the zone featured an interview with Mark

1337
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:30,240
Roberts about the young 911 and the

1338
00:50:35,150 --> 00:50:33,119
troopers and some people have commented

1339
00:50:36,770 --> 00:50:35,160
rightly so that the audio quality wasn't

1340
00:50:39,109 --> 00:50:36,780
up to scratch well that was because we

1341
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:39,119
had to get the interview quickly and for

1342
00:50:43,490 --> 00:50:40,410
a number of reasons that's the best

1343
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:43,500
audio we had but subsequently I have

1344
00:50:48,319 --> 00:50:45,810
received the original tapes and I've put

1345
00:50:51,380 --> 00:50:48,329
up the video of that interview with Mark

1346
00:50:53,569 --> 00:50:51,390
Roberts if you go to skeptics own TV you

1347
00:50:55,790 --> 00:50:53,579
can actually click on our video link see

1348
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:55,800
the video and the audio is much better

1349
00:50:59,210 --> 00:50:57,839
but I think we'll kick off today's think

1350
00:51:00,520 --> 00:50:59,220
tank with you Michael what do you have

1351
00:51:03,060 --> 00:51:00,530
tours

1352
00:51:06,190 --> 00:51:03,070
the first story I wanted to discuss

1353
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:06,200
rights to the Church of Scientology them

1354
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:09,050
again an 18 year old New Jersey man will

1355
00:51:12,730 --> 00:51:11,330
plead guilty to the January online

1356
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:12,740
attacks that took down the Church of

1357
00:51:18,660 --> 00:51:16,250
Scientology's website he faces 10 years

1358
00:51:21,610 --> 00:51:18,670
in prison on computer hacking charges

1359
00:51:23,740 --> 00:51:21,620
Wow now the reason I wanted to mention

1360
00:51:26,260 --> 00:51:23,750
this particular story is if you're a

1361
00:51:30,460 --> 00:51:26,270
young skeptic or if you're a young Colt

1362
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:30,470
critic don't do anything illegal yes you

1363
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:32,450
gotta rise above don't stoop to the

1364
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:33,770
level of the charlatans and the

1365
00:51:39,970 --> 00:51:37,610
fraudsters play it by the rulebook it's

1366
00:51:41,740 --> 00:51:39,980
the best way to do it I completely agree

1367
00:51:43,390 --> 00:51:41,750
and have an awful lot of interesting

1368
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:43,400
times and fun and do some really good

1369
00:51:48,340 --> 00:51:46,010
stuff in skepticism you don't have to go

1370
00:51:51,010 --> 00:51:48,350
out and do silly things and break the

1371
00:51:54,850 --> 00:51:51,020
law I totally agree it is easier to get

1372
00:51:58,710 --> 00:51:54,860
carried away oh you're feeling do

1373
00:52:00,510 --> 00:51:58,720
something and you just inside

1374
00:52:02,550 --> 00:52:00,520
cocoon and you know you get

1375
00:52:05,609 --> 00:52:02,560
reinforcements it can happen be skeptics

1376
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:05,619
as well as to everyone else that we get

1377
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:07,599
our positive reinforcement from our

1378
00:52:12,230 --> 00:52:09,730
colleagues and our friends and sometimes

1379
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:12,240
that can push you a little bit too far

1380
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:17,290
yeah absolutely well I've got a story

1381
00:52:23,609 --> 00:52:20,530
that broke last week in Australia about

1382
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:23,619
a massive alien spaceship which was

1383
00:52:28,050 --> 00:52:25,510
supposed to land on Earth on the

1384
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:28,060
fourteenth of October and an Australian

1385
00:52:32,580 --> 00:52:30,910
psychic predicted this she insisted that

1386
00:52:35,910 --> 00:52:32,590
it was going to occur on october the

1387
00:52:37,859 --> 00:52:35,920
14th and bookmakers were incredibly

1388
00:52:41,940 --> 00:52:37,869
worried about this because last time

1389
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:41,950
they took bets on am something to do

1390
00:52:45,540 --> 00:52:44,170
with space-based issues was back in

1391
00:52:47,670 --> 00:52:45,550
nineteen sixty-nine with the moon

1392
00:52:50,670 --> 00:52:47,680
landings and they in fact had to pay out

1393
00:52:53,820 --> 00:52:50,680
millions and millions of dollars and so

1394
00:52:55,830 --> 00:52:53,830
this story says here that they stopped

1395
00:52:59,310 --> 00:52:55,840
taking bets on whether this event would

1396
00:53:02,310 --> 00:52:59,320
happen but I'm do any of you know what

1397
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:02,320
happened well you know I must have been

1398
00:53:06,329 --> 00:53:04,690
I think I slept in that day with Brad I

1399
00:53:09,510 --> 00:53:06,339
didn't get it really enough or maybe I

1400
00:53:13,690 --> 00:53:09,520
with the bed to private was when was

1401
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:13,700
this allied skeptics conference ah

1402
00:53:18,820 --> 00:53:15,920
well the conference was the 11th over 12

1403
00:53:22,300 --> 00:53:18,830
yeah so it would have been the Monday I

1404
00:53:23,890 --> 00:53:22,310
guess no tuesday the tuesday after the

1405
00:53:25,900 --> 00:53:23,900
skeptics conference i bet maybe we

1406
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:25,910
scared them away I don't know I went

1407
00:53:32,050 --> 00:53:27,440
back to work after long weekend away

1408
00:53:34,450 --> 00:53:32,060
that felt like the end of the world well

1409
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:34,460
this lady her name is blossom goodchild

1410
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:36,290
isn't that a lovely name for a psychic

1411
00:53:42,250 --> 00:53:38,810
good child that something's like the

1412
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:42,260
goons what she's based in Queensland

1413
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:43,970
Richard they do have some unusual names

1414
00:53:49,330 --> 00:53:47,450
I'm me yes she said actually it was

1415
00:53:52,450 --> 00:53:49,340
going to land in the American desert and

1416
00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:52,460
she said the aliens were coming in love

1417
00:53:56,950 --> 00:53:54,710
to help us in our planet move to a new

1418
00:53:59,110 --> 00:53:56,960
higher vibration of love that's nice of

1419
00:54:00,940 --> 00:53:59,120
them yeah it is nice them to travel all

1420
00:54:03,370 --> 00:54:00,950
that way to just give us a hug isn't it

1421
00:54:05,950 --> 00:54:03,380
but in fact they didn't they didn't

1422
00:54:07,810 --> 00:54:05,960
arrive so we're a little bit

1423
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:07,820
disappointed about that I'm heartbroken

1424
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:09,890
well we saw our only Wi-Fi this week

1425
00:54:14,260 --> 00:54:11,690
didn't we actually Rachel and I went

1426
00:54:17,470 --> 00:54:14,270
clean spotting yes folks yes we went

1427
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:17,480
plane spotting yeah we were by the

1428
00:54:23,830 --> 00:54:20,330
airport waiting for the a380 everywhere

1429
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:23,840
where instead we suddenly from a

1430
00:54:29,050 --> 00:54:26,000
building nearby a weather balloon

1431
00:54:31,390 --> 00:54:29,060
emerged and went up into the sky and

1432
00:54:34,420 --> 00:54:31,400
we're going that's incredible it looks

1433
00:54:36,310 --> 00:54:34,430
like a UFO and I can't believe it that

1434
00:54:38,500 --> 00:54:36,320
there was an actual weather balloon the

1435
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:38,510
classic well I've never seen one I don't

1436
00:54:43,830 --> 00:54:41,050
think you've seen one knows like that no

1437
00:54:45,060 --> 00:54:43,840
and we did take some photographs of it

1438
00:54:47,550 --> 00:54:45,070
when it had gone off into the distance

1439
00:54:49,380 --> 00:54:47,560
and it does look like it's eat well it

1440
00:54:52,740 --> 00:54:49,390
is a UFO is an unidentified you an

1441
00:54:54,990 --> 00:54:52,750
object from that it's got it's on a

1442
00:54:57,510 --> 00:54:55,000
cable underneath it's got two metallic

1443
00:54:59,310 --> 00:54:57,520
objects which are reflectors or their

1444
00:55:00,930 --> 00:54:59,320
transmitters or whatever but as soon as

1445
00:55:02,670 --> 00:55:00,940
it gets some altitude and these things

1446
00:55:04,770 --> 00:55:02,680
start glinting in the Sun it looks

1447
00:55:06,930 --> 00:55:04,780
really eerie yeah it does and because

1448
00:55:08,550 --> 00:55:06,940
the metallic part of it captures the

1449
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:08,560
sunlight it flickers when it's quite

1450
00:55:12,510 --> 00:55:11,170
high up in the in the sky yeah but it

1451
00:55:14,340 --> 00:55:12,520
was interesting wasn't it what you see

1452
00:55:16,980 --> 00:55:14,350
it actually be released I've never seen

1453
00:55:18,570 --> 00:55:16,990
that no before and then when you got

1454
00:55:19,950 --> 00:55:18,580
home you did a search for Sydney weather

1455
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:19,960
balloon and there it was and it looks

1456
00:55:25,890 --> 00:55:23,290
exactly like that yeah yeah yeah so next

1457
00:55:27,210 --> 00:55:25,900
time you hear some some debunker saying

1458
00:55:31,410 --> 00:55:27,220
oh it's probably a weather balloon there

1459
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:31,420
might be wrong they might be right well

1460
00:55:35,220 --> 00:55:33,130
you know there is another UFO story that

1461
00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:35,230
broke yesterday Oh in fact today and

1462
00:55:39,540 --> 00:55:36,730
most of you would have heard about this

1463
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:39,550
the UK Ministry of Defence has released

1464
00:55:46,020 --> 00:55:43,450
all of their UFO information from the

1465
00:55:50,370 --> 00:55:46,030
last 20 years oh yes I saw that yeah

1466
00:55:53,580 --> 00:55:50,380
yeah so it's something like I don't know

1467
00:55:55,620 --> 00:55:53,590
how many files they've got but um an X

1468
00:56:02,970 --> 00:55:55,630
number of files and X number files you

1469
00:56:09,570 --> 00:56:07,020
yes an X number of files covering 1986

1470
00:56:12,150 --> 00:56:09,580
to 1992 I'm just going to let that one

1471
00:56:15,210 --> 00:56:12,160
pass what is the best joke you like to

1472
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:15,220
know what the best one he'll make to you

1473
00:56:22,500 --> 00:56:18,090
thank you you probably right Amanda and

1474
00:56:24,270 --> 00:56:22,510
so they released these files after a

1475
00:56:26,130 --> 00:56:24,280
flood of requests from enthusiasts and

1476
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:26,140
conspiracy theorists to a convinced the

1477
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:28,090
truth is out there Richard what is out

1478
00:56:31,380 --> 00:56:30,010
there well that surely is it's on that

1479
00:56:33,780 --> 00:56:31,390
weather balloon we saw you should trust

1480
00:56:37,410 --> 00:56:33,790
no one there's also another story of a

1481
00:56:42,570 --> 00:56:37,420
US fighter pilot who was scrambled to

1482
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:42,580
intercept a UFO in East Anglia and he

1483
00:56:47,310 --> 00:56:44,890
after he fired at this mysterious split

1484
00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:47,320
it disappeared from him some radar so

1485
00:56:52,230 --> 00:56:50,050
clearly tired of it yes he was told to

1486
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:52,240
scramble and he fired at it and it

1487
00:56:55,740 --> 00:56:53,890
doesn't he said the same guy who said it

1488
00:56:59,250 --> 00:56:55,750
disappeared at 10 times the speed of

1489
00:57:01,550 --> 00:56:59,260
sound I didn't yeah hit a reply her

1490
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:01,560
typically I heard it on the news this

1491
00:57:06,090 --> 00:57:03,520
American voice on the end of the phone

1492
00:57:07,890 --> 00:57:06,100
line yes it disappeared that few times

1493
00:57:10,380 --> 00:57:07,900
the speed of sound thinking that's

1494
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:10,390
better gentlemen something you just say

1495
00:57:14,820 --> 00:57:11,650
off the top of your head isn't it his

1496
00:57:17,370 --> 00:57:14,830
name is Milton Torres he's a US Air

1497
00:57:19,770 --> 00:57:17,380
Force fighter pilot and he was based in

1498
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:19,780
England at the time he's now living in

1499
00:57:24,420 --> 00:57:22,210
Florida yeah so I've been reading some

1500
00:57:26,310 --> 00:57:24,430
of the comments too because i did a

1501
00:57:28,590 --> 00:57:26,320
search videos on google and i got 75

1502
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:28,600
hits just in the news section and there

1503
00:57:32,670 --> 00:57:30,160
are a lot of people commenting and most

1504
00:57:35,630 --> 00:57:32,680
of the comments are well this is this is

1505
00:57:37,250 --> 00:57:35,640
quite healthy interesting and it's funny

1506
00:57:39,740 --> 00:57:37,260
not a lot of people are saying that

1507
00:57:42,500 --> 00:57:39,750
they're believers and someone else has

1508
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:42,510
said that in fact you can download all

1509
00:57:46,460 --> 00:57:44,130
these files for free from the Ministry

1510
00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:46,470
of Defence for a month and then after

1511
00:57:49,970 --> 00:57:47,430
that time they're going to start

1512
00:57:51,140 --> 00:57:49,980
charging for them so someone has said

1513
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:51,150
that they're just trying to make money

1514
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:54,210
out of it which you know wine on there

1515
00:57:58,220 --> 00:57:55,890
is actually a really interesting

1516
00:58:01,100 --> 00:57:58,230
collection of pictures that people have

1517
00:58:02,900 --> 00:58:01,110
submitted to the Ministry of Defence as

1518
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:02,910
you know anecdotal evidence for what

1519
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:05,250
they've seen the last interesting

1520
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:06,690
article I found about this was a quite

1521
00:58:14,390 --> 00:58:12,240
funny and sarcastic article where the

1522
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:14,400
reporter says that another report

1523
00:58:18,830 --> 00:58:16,170
includes the first-hand account of us

1524
00:58:21,770 --> 00:58:18,840
airport pilot at Air Force pilot that I

1525
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:21,780
just mentioned and this reporter says

1526
00:58:26,090 --> 00:58:23,850
and I quote as of presstime no

1527
00:58:27,860 --> 00:58:26,100
confirmation was given as to whether or

1528
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:27,870
not that Air Force pilot was Will Smith

1529
00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:31,770
or Harry Connick jr. so people are

1530
00:58:38,090 --> 00:58:33,900
having fun with it I have a story from

1531
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:38,100
Kuala Lumpur a 19 year old Malaysian and

1532
00:58:42,290 --> 00:58:40,290
his two cousins have been charged with a

1533
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:42,300
murder for allegedly beating to death

1534
00:58:47,630 --> 00:58:45,210
the young man's parents and a bizarre

1535
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:47,640
ritual meant to cure them of the smoking

1536
00:58:54,110 --> 00:58:50,310
habit and other problems what did that

1537
00:58:57,290 --> 00:58:54,120
now my question is have they heard of

1538
00:58:59,120 --> 00:58:57,300
nicotine patches before I'm sure they

1539
00:59:02,210 --> 00:58:59,130
must have the equivalent of the quit

1540
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:02,220
line in Malaysia that's pretty dramatic

1541
00:59:07,490 --> 00:59:04,890
so they were performing this is it a

1542
00:59:10,970 --> 00:59:07,500
ritual or what well that that's that's

1543
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:10,980
right in Malaysia superstitious beliefs

1544
00:59:16,220 --> 00:59:14,490
a massive and in villages it's common

1545
00:59:19,700 --> 00:59:16,230
for people to seek help of spiritual

1546
00:59:22,220 --> 00:59:19,710
healers for mental or physical illnesses

1547
00:59:23,810 --> 00:59:22,230
and sometimes you don't know if you want

1548
00:59:26,210 --> 00:59:23,820
a laugh or cry and well that's pretty

1549
00:59:31,339 --> 00:59:26,220
sad and the prosecutor said that these

1550
00:59:34,570 --> 00:59:31,349
three have been charged the maximum

1551
00:59:37,940 --> 00:59:34,580
penalty for them is the death penalty so

1552
00:59:40,310 --> 00:59:37,950
everybody loses absolutely that's

1553
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:40,320
terrible no you're right they must have

1554
00:59:45,829 --> 00:59:43,440
a quick line on something similar he's

1555
00:59:47,599 --> 00:59:45,839
pretty extreme it's pretty extreme but

1556
00:59:49,220 --> 00:59:47,609
it wasn't a religious ritual they just

1557
00:59:50,990 --> 00:59:49,230
they referred to it as a bizarre ritual

1558
00:59:52,370 --> 00:59:51,000
because of the nature of the know

1559
00:59:56,060 --> 00:59:52,380
they're involved with some type of

1560
00:59:58,120 --> 00:59:56,070
peculiar cold the details of that are

1561
01:00:00,620 --> 00:59:58,130
not particularly sure wrong but

1562
01:00:03,349 --> 01:00:00,630
apparently got out of hand and they

1563
01:00:06,620 --> 01:00:03,359
weren't supposed to kill the parents but

1564
01:00:08,660 --> 01:00:06,630
it just kind of eventuated now I'm going

1565
01:00:11,329 --> 01:00:08,670
to change that the the pace a little bit

1566
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:11,339
now when we were in Adelaide a few

1567
01:00:14,270 --> 01:00:12,930
weekends ago for the Australian skeptics

1568
01:00:16,430 --> 01:00:14,280
National Convention which you would have

1569
01:00:20,540 --> 01:00:16,440
heard the interviews from earlier in

1570
01:00:22,579 --> 01:00:20,550
this episode Amanda Rachel and I and

1571
01:00:26,690 --> 01:00:22,589
collister just roll in a car traveling

1572
01:00:29,930 --> 01:00:26,700
towards the convention I know it's

1573
01:00:32,599 --> 01:00:29,940
coming and I had a little recorder with

1574
01:00:34,700 --> 01:00:32,609
me and I'll just play you now what

1575
01:00:37,910 --> 01:00:34,710
happened as we were driving down the

1576
01:00:40,099 --> 01:00:37,920
street not them on face what is this

1577
01:00:42,410 --> 01:00:40,109
this vehicle we're about the what oh

1578
01:00:44,060 --> 01:00:42,420
it's carrying glass so letters oh that

1579
01:00:47,259 --> 01:00:44,070
looks like part of a carnival ride it's

1580
01:01:08,690 --> 01:01:04,609
I don't dare change that Moses some kind

1581
01:01:10,609 --> 01:01:08,700
of tiny welcome to the think tank where

1582
01:01:13,309 --> 01:01:10,619
will you bring your camels for your

1583
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:13,319
listening pleasure hey were scrambling

1584
01:01:19,460 --> 01:01:16,170
the camera often seem a bit right now

1585
01:01:20,809 --> 01:01:19,470
that we just passed a camel while he's

1586
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:20,819
coming up behind we got the lights up

1587
01:01:26,029 --> 01:01:23,010
again sir maybe I've got making out so

1588
01:01:30,609 --> 01:01:26,039
he stops next to us we can yeah oh come

1589
01:01:37,329 --> 01:01:30,619
on we're still moving on to the left ear

1590
01:01:41,420 --> 01:01:37,339
here we go man welcome to easily amused

1591
01:01:43,819 --> 01:01:41,430
the driver because looking at okay there

1592
01:01:45,950 --> 01:01:43,829
are two camels right next three yeah

1593
01:01:55,819 --> 01:01:45,960
that's a port 22 cameras on a horse

1594
01:02:00,170 --> 01:01:55,829
there's a box of ducks as well take the

1595
01:02:03,319 --> 01:02:00,180
photograph we good now folks if you go

1596
01:02:04,849 --> 01:02:03,329
to skeptics own TV or to our Flickr page

1597
01:02:07,010 --> 01:02:04,859
you can actually see the camels we're

1598
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:07,020
looking at

1599
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:11,370
I'm they lovely I lay back bactrian

1600
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:13,920
camels or drama do this once with two

1601
01:02:19,190 --> 01:02:15,810
humps and ones we've always looking at

1602
01:02:22,700 --> 01:02:19,200
you he's a lovely right there he goes on

1603
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:22,710
it oh my camera always telling us I just

1604
01:02:29,180 --> 01:02:24,450
got his tongue out it just stepping on

1605
01:02:31,420 --> 01:02:29,190
the brakes pyramid so the last time I

1606
01:02:34,970 --> 01:02:31,430
saw camels was I was at the pyramids

1607
01:02:36,380 --> 01:02:34,980
that's why Cairo oh my god I've never

1608
01:02:37,490 --> 01:02:36,390
been to Egypt I'm they wouldn't have

1609
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:37,500
been on the back of the truck though

1610
01:02:43,820 --> 01:02:39,810
they know they were men with machine

1611
01:02:46,100 --> 01:02:43,830
guns on the back of him oh that's that's

1612
01:02:48,290 --> 01:02:46,110
definitely the way the writing heavily

1613
01:02:50,030 --> 01:02:48,300
armed and ready for action well we're

1614
01:02:52,100 --> 01:02:50,040
nearly at the convention now so on that

1615
01:02:53,870 --> 01:02:52,110
note of the camels and ducks we were

1616
01:02:55,970 --> 01:02:53,880
heavily armed and ready for action every

1617
01:02:58,690 --> 01:02:55,980
Australian national convention here in

1618
01:03:01,370 --> 01:02:58,700
adelaide it's bye-bye from the special

1619
01:03:09,830 --> 01:03:01,380
lighting a t-shape driving camel

1620
01:03:13,370 --> 01:03:09,840
additional think so there you go I'll

1621
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:13,380
under easily mmm on there was about two

1622
01:03:18,260 --> 01:03:16,410
ducks I got ammo here dr. King a nice

1623
01:03:19,850 --> 01:03:18,270
drop that was the funniest thing I

1624
01:03:21,980 --> 01:03:19,860
mean to see one cattle then to realize

1625
01:03:25,100 --> 01:03:21,990
they were two and then to see there's a

1626
01:03:27,980 --> 01:03:25,110
Shetland ponies and then to find a box

1627
01:03:31,100 --> 01:03:27,990
of ducks that was just it doesn't happen

1628
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:31,110
every day it does an Adelaide strangely

1629
01:03:35,329 --> 01:03:33,450
enough it happens to acid things

1630
01:03:40,460 --> 01:03:35,339
well I've got a story which is quite

1631
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:40,470
upsetting this is a story that is based

1632
01:03:45,130 --> 01:03:42,089
in Western Australia here and it was it

1633
01:03:47,540 --> 01:03:45,140
it's around it's about a serial killer

1634
01:03:49,730 --> 01:03:47,550
who has been come known as the

1635
01:03:51,290 --> 01:03:49,740
Clairemont killer oh yes he committed

1636
01:03:55,579 --> 01:03:51,300
most of his crimes in a suburb of

1637
01:03:59,000 --> 01:03:55,589
Western Australia called Clermont now

1638
01:04:02,000 --> 01:03:59,010
this story has been going around since

1639
01:04:06,020 --> 01:04:02,010
1996 because a girl by the name of Sarah

1640
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:06,030
Spears disappeared back in January 1996

1641
01:04:11,050 --> 01:04:08,490
and her father had reason to come out to

1642
01:04:14,660 --> 01:04:11,060
the press quite a few times recently

1643
01:04:17,060 --> 01:04:14,670
because he reported that up to 400

1644
01:04:18,770 --> 01:04:17,070
psychics and clairvoyants from across

1645
01:04:22,819 --> 01:04:18,780
the world had contacted him since his

1646
01:04:25,310 --> 01:04:22,829
daughter disappeared and he says how he

1647
01:04:27,079 --> 01:04:25,320
felt harassed he described how he

1648
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:27,089
followed a chronic depression because of

1649
01:04:31,250 --> 01:04:29,490
this harassment by clairvoyance who

1650
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:31,260
demanded money to help find his daughter

1651
01:04:36,410 --> 01:04:35,010
and he has been reluctant to speak to

1652
01:04:38,180 --> 01:04:36,420
the media up until this point but

1653
01:04:40,780 --> 01:04:38,190
yesterday he said that his emotional and

1654
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:40,790
mental trauma had cost him to come out

1655
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:43,890
and his he said that they hounded me to

1656
01:04:49,130 --> 01:04:46,530
death I've been getting it every day it

1657
01:04:50,630 --> 01:04:49,140
was just an onslaught they were telling

1658
01:04:52,940 --> 01:04:50,640
me all sorts of things that give me

1659
01:04:55,220 --> 01:04:52,950
cryptic clues they had my emotions on a

1660
01:04:57,260 --> 01:04:55,230
roller coaster and I can't understand

1661
01:04:58,849 --> 01:04:57,270
why anyone would do this to me in the

1662
01:05:01,309 --> 01:04:58,859
situation I was in it just made it worse

1663
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:01,319
well that's what we normally we hear you

1664
01:05:05,210 --> 01:05:03,690
know I think these people are probably

1665
01:05:07,579 --> 01:05:05,220
well meaning or maybe not but they're

1666
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:07,589
deluded well they certainly are deluded

1667
01:05:09,650 --> 01:05:08,250
but in this case

1668
01:05:11,810 --> 01:05:09,660
I wouldn't say that they would be well

1669
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:11,820
meaning if they're asking for money all

1670
01:05:15,530 --> 01:05:13,530
right they are saying to him they want

1671
01:05:16,910 --> 01:05:15,540
money yeah first is there so if they're

1672
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:16,920
well-meaning why weren't they do it just

1673
01:05:20,210 --> 01:05:18,810
to help him without renumeration out of

1674
01:05:23,060 --> 01:05:20,220
the goodness of their heart that's right

1675
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:23,070
but a couple of days ago some this there

1676
01:05:27,710 --> 01:05:26,130
was an additional arm to this story when

1677
01:05:30,170 --> 01:05:27,720
a group of these psychics got together

1678
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:30,180
at an event at a casino in Western

1679
01:05:36,350 --> 01:05:31,410
Australia and they're calling themselves

1680
01:05:38,990 --> 01:05:36,360
a psychic task force and they claimed

1681
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:39,000
that they have put together an identical

1682
01:05:42,800 --> 01:05:41,610
image of the man that is known as the

1683
01:05:45,890 --> 01:05:42,810
Clermont serial killer because obviously

1684
01:05:47,390 --> 01:05:45,900
he hasn't been caught yet and at the

1685
01:05:49,190 --> 01:05:47,400
event the psychic showed the audience an

1686
01:05:50,780 --> 01:05:49,200
identical image which they believed to

1687
01:05:54,650 --> 01:05:50,790
be him they claimed his now aged between

1688
01:05:56,660 --> 01:05:54,660
35 and 40 and police have declined to

1689
01:05:59,570 --> 01:05:56,670
comment on the psychic screams but they

1690
01:06:02,690 --> 01:05:59,580
say they consider them inaccurate and

1691
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:02,700
damaging to the investigation and now

1692
01:06:07,010 --> 01:06:04,410
mr. Spears who's the daughter of Sarah

1693
01:06:08,900 --> 01:06:07,020
who disappeared in 1996 has said

1694
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:08,910
psychics just want to make money from

1695
01:06:12,980 --> 01:06:11,370
other people's grief and misfortune it

1696
01:06:14,540 --> 01:06:12,990
upsets me that they are still trying to

1697
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:14,550
gain from the death of my daughter and

1698
01:06:18,290 --> 01:06:16,170
the other girls after all these years

1699
01:06:19,820 --> 01:06:18,300
it's crazy isn't it and the newspaper

1700
01:06:22,370 --> 01:06:19,830
gave this prominence what about if a

1701
01:06:24,590 --> 01:06:22,380
group of plumbers got together you came

1702
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:24,600
up with an identikit it just makes as

1703
01:06:28,130 --> 01:06:26,130
much sense as people who call themselves

1704
01:06:31,310 --> 01:06:28,140
psychics because psychics have as much

1705
01:06:33,320 --> 01:06:31,320
psychic ability as a car we've seen I

1706
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:33,330
mean the coverage of it was negative the

1707
01:06:37,130 --> 01:06:34,890
way I thought about the side in the

1708
01:06:40,310 --> 01:06:37,140
media it was yes yes I mean they were

1709
01:06:43,100 --> 01:06:40,320
referred to in this article by by mr.

1710
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:43,110
Spears as shysters and interestingly the

1711
01:06:46,100 --> 01:06:44,490
last line of the article says the

1712
01:06:48,150 --> 01:06:46,110
psychics involved in the event could not

1713
01:06:50,490 --> 01:06:48,160
be contacted for Tom

1714
01:06:52,559 --> 01:06:50,500
and they did this in a casino right they

1715
01:06:54,299 --> 01:06:52,569
didn't all walk away with the money I

1716
01:06:56,460 --> 01:06:54,309
don't they didn't all go then to the

1717
01:06:58,559 --> 01:06:56,470
blackjack tables and the roulette tables

1718
01:06:59,880 --> 01:06:58,569
well I guess they could have but perhaps

1719
01:07:01,230 --> 01:06:59,890
they don't want to take advantage of

1720
01:07:03,029 --> 01:07:01,240
people which of their just there to help

1721
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:03,039
us yeah they're not gonna make money off

1722
01:07:06,180 --> 01:07:04,569
there I don't want to make money on so

1723
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:06,190
he heard that they're not doing it

1724
01:07:10,950 --> 01:07:08,410
that's why I can't do Randy's lily and

1725
01:07:12,210 --> 01:07:10,960
all the hundred grand yeah strike if

1726
01:07:14,309 --> 01:07:12,220
they're not in it for the money in it

1727
01:07:17,309 --> 01:07:14,319
for the money no no no I just meant to

1728
01:07:19,559 --> 01:07:17,319
help me speaking of psychics yeah I'd

1729
01:07:21,930 --> 01:07:19,569
like to introduce to everyone the

1730
01:07:24,329 --> 01:07:21,940
journal of women's day Wow look at that

1731
01:07:26,460 --> 01:07:24,339
what is woman's day Rachel for those

1732
01:07:32,250 --> 01:07:26,470
people who live on Mars and may not have

1733
01:07:34,349 --> 01:07:32,260
heard of it okay woman's day yes I'm not

1734
01:07:36,420 --> 01:07:34,359
going to touch that one use you can link

1735
01:07:39,359 --> 01:07:36,430
to Mars in America and the same breath

1736
01:07:41,490 --> 01:07:39,369
you can edit that out Richard please um

1737
01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:41,500
women's day is a highly credible

1738
01:07:47,640 --> 01:07:45,730
incredibly informative and all-round

1739
01:07:49,319 --> 01:07:47,650
really good woman's magazine and comes

1740
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:49,329
out in colorful too much it's very

1741
01:07:53,250 --> 01:07:51,010
painful this week isn't it pink and

1742
01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:53,260
yellow it comes out once a week and it

1743
01:08:00,029 --> 01:07:55,690
covers such important issues as all

1744
01:08:01,980 --> 01:08:00,039
Marcia Brady my secret drug he'll also

1745
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:01,990
oh it's official inside Madonna's

1746
01:08:04,859 --> 01:08:03,760
divorce I'm bringing this notable

1747
01:08:06,599 --> 01:08:04,869
journal to your attention Richard

1748
01:08:10,019 --> 01:08:06,609
because recently this notable journal

1749
01:08:11,819 --> 01:08:10,029
has got a brand new column it's the John

1750
01:08:14,039 --> 01:08:11,829
Edwards psychic common the John Edward

1751
01:08:16,110 --> 01:08:14,049
John Edward is now writing for The

1752
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:16,120
Journal of woman's day but yeah his

1753
01:08:19,829 --> 01:08:18,250
column appears on page 105 so it's right

1754
01:08:21,419 --> 01:08:19,839
at the back of the journal so like

1755
01:08:27,419 --> 01:08:21,429
numerology or something well have a

1756
01:08:32,609 --> 01:08:29,729
he does a little bit doesn't mean ya

1757
01:08:34,739 --> 01:08:32,619
know his column is about putting you in

1758
01:08:36,719 --> 01:08:34,749
touch with your depart at once which you

1759
01:08:39,390 --> 01:08:36,729
know is his a specialty is crossing over

1760
01:08:41,989 --> 01:08:39,400
wood so basically what you do is you

1761
01:08:44,399 --> 01:08:41,999
write to learn magazine and you send in

1762
01:08:47,549 --> 01:08:44,409
the name of the person you'd like to

1763
01:08:49,919 --> 01:08:47,559
contact wit and you just have to say

1764
01:08:52,469 --> 01:08:49,929
what relation they are T whether they're

1765
01:08:56,160 --> 01:08:52,479
a friend the child a husband and he will

1766
01:08:57,989 --> 01:08:56,170
can connect with them cross over with

1767
01:08:59,789 --> 01:08:57,999
them and tell you what they are they're

1768
01:09:01,859 --> 01:08:59,799
going but you'll be interested to know

1769
01:09:03,599 --> 01:09:01,869
this Richard this this column is budding

1770
01:09:06,239 --> 01:09:03,609
up right next to the column from dead

1771
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:06,249
Weber now you know Deborah don't you

1772
01:09:10,709 --> 01:09:08,319
agent I've never I've never met dev

1773
01:09:12,870 --> 01:09:10,719
Weber but I do know her cousins so

1774
01:09:14,579 --> 01:09:12,880
that's close enough we know of her I

1775
01:09:16,499 --> 01:09:14,589
know she's notorious isn't she she's

1776
01:09:18,779 --> 01:09:16,509
infamous and she's been appearing on a

1777
01:09:21,539 --> 01:09:18,789
show called sensing murder dancing

1778
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:21,549
ratings yes yes which is this where they

1779
01:09:25,199 --> 01:09:23,170
get a whole lot of psychic detectives

1780
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:25,209
together to go out and solve crime I'm

1781
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:27,130
sorry they get a whole lot of people who

1782
01:09:31,199 --> 01:09:28,719
think they're psychic or no they're not

1783
01:09:32,759 --> 01:09:31,209
and they don't solve crimes the funny

1784
01:09:34,140 --> 01:09:32,769
thing is you know I've watched a few of

1785
01:09:35,939 --> 01:09:34,150
these shows and it's always the same

1786
01:09:37,709 --> 01:09:35,949
thing they get them close to the site

1787
01:09:40,079 --> 01:09:37,719
where the murder purportedly occurred

1788
01:09:41,969 --> 01:09:40,089
which is you know on police record and

1789
01:09:43,379 --> 01:09:41,979
they all start shaking and getting all

1790
01:09:45,749 --> 01:09:43,389
nervous and going I can't be here

1791
01:09:47,789 --> 01:09:45,759
anymore it's too much for me but every

1792
01:09:50,509 --> 01:09:47,799
single episode I've seen at the end it

1793
01:09:53,699 --> 01:09:50,519
says this this crime remains unsolved

1794
01:09:55,949 --> 01:09:53,709
every single one you know so what are

1795
01:09:58,529 --> 01:09:55,959
they doing they're getting readings yeah

1796
01:10:00,000 --> 01:09:58,539
but let me just really one thing if

1797
01:10:02,549 --> 01:10:00,010
there are four pages in this some

1798
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:02,559
journal of woman's day most of which are

1799
01:10:06,449 --> 01:10:04,449
ads for psych excuse so ring this number

1800
01:10:10,820 --> 01:10:06,459
pay five dollars fifty in a minute

1801
01:10:15,890 --> 01:10:13,970
and an allegedly does help solve crimes

1802
01:10:17,710 --> 01:10:15,900
she's what she says she does and now

1803
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:17,720
she's going to help uncover your secrets

1804
01:10:23,810 --> 01:10:20,610
so I'd rather to stick to solving crimes

1805
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:23,820
well I would too but she's she just

1806
01:10:27,380 --> 01:10:25,050
wants to help people Richard like the

1807
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:27,390
ones we talked about earlier so I was

1808
01:10:31,490 --> 01:10:28,650
scrolling through this and it's just the

1809
01:10:33,350 --> 01:10:31,500
normal stuff of you know will my will my

1810
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:33,360
dog come home tomorrow or will I get a

1811
01:10:38,150 --> 01:10:35,730
job in the place I want to get a job in

1812
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:38,160
and then I found this one entitled

1813
01:10:43,940 --> 01:10:41,970
outrageous claim the question is my

1814
01:10:46,370 --> 01:10:43,950
mother-in-law has accused me of sexually

1815
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:46,380
interfering with my stepson how do I

1816
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:48,930
handle this false accusation signed

1817
01:10:56,000 --> 01:10:52,250
accused you want to hear the answer no

1818
01:10:58,070 --> 01:10:56,010
go on the answer is she is eventually

1819
01:11:00,350 --> 01:10:58,080
going to get caught out so please ignore

1820
01:11:03,290 --> 01:11:00,360
her this is not the first time she has

1821
01:11:05,750 --> 01:11:03,300
done this this is pretty serious

1822
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:05,760
allegations being thrown around here yes

1823
01:11:11,660 --> 01:11:08,810
well it is the journal of women's day um

1824
01:11:14,180 --> 01:11:11,670
yeah so this person has been accused of

1825
01:11:16,700 --> 01:11:14,190
interfering with with us his stepson and

1826
01:11:19,030 --> 01:11:16,710
she's saying well some others lying she

1827
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:19,040
does it all the time or her

1828
01:11:26,260 --> 01:11:24,050
well yeah it could be better at I think

1829
01:11:29,380 --> 01:11:26,270
this is very appropriate to be dealt

1830
01:11:31,900 --> 01:11:29,390
with and or printed man what is more or

1831
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:31,910
less a glorified agony on column yes

1832
01:11:38,140 --> 01:11:34,610
indeed here but you do feel sorry for

1833
01:11:43,210 --> 01:11:38,150
the people that turn to these psychics

1834
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:43,220
and you do feel some sympathy mmm and

1835
01:11:48,340 --> 01:11:45,890
these hucksters are taking their money

1836
01:11:50,260 --> 01:11:48,350
yeah spitting out just garbled nonsense

1837
01:11:53,080 --> 01:11:50,270
and it's interesting that these a

1838
01:11:54,670 --> 01:11:53,090
magazine like this which is for women if

1839
01:11:57,370 --> 01:11:54,680
you think that somewhere in the back of

1840
01:11:59,560 --> 01:11:57,380
the people's minds they're thinking they

1841
01:12:01,150 --> 01:11:59,570
know this is rubbish well look i like i

1842
01:12:02,290 --> 01:12:01,160
like to think about you know flick

1843
01:12:04,090 --> 01:12:02,300
through it and read it and they read

1844
01:12:07,030 --> 01:12:04,100
that with the same seriousness that they

1845
01:12:12,430 --> 01:12:07,040
read you know Madonna's best friend

1846
01:12:14,860 --> 01:12:12,440
tells all you know sources claim cases

1847
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:14,870
in some cases which doesn't make it any

1848
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:17,810
better but so from the bowels here of

1849
01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:20,850
our favorite club down the street and

1850
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:23,130
we might go upstairs and see if there's

1851
01:12:27,250 --> 01:12:24,810
anything left to winning the raffle a

1852
01:12:30,350 --> 01:12:27,260
oars all of our madness by doling it out

1853
01:12:32,690 --> 01:12:30,360
so we got dirty looks from the Nana if

1854
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:32,700
you want if you want the think tank team

1855
01:12:37,070 --> 01:12:34,890
to discuss any items of interest you can

1856
01:12:39,830 --> 01:12:37,080
write to us if you go to the about Us

1857
01:12:42,020 --> 01:12:39,840
page on skeptics earned TV write to us

1858
01:12:43,910 --> 01:12:42,030
and don't forget to check the blog where

1859
01:12:46,510 --> 01:12:43,920
we will put all the links to met things

1860
01:12:49,340 --> 01:12:46,520
we mentioned during this think tank and

1861
01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:49,350
we'll see you we won't see you in fact

1862
01:13:10,950 --> 01:12:52,410
that you'll hear us in two weeks so it's

1863
01:13:16,480 --> 01:13:14,200
Richard another spectacular zone has

1864
01:13:18,460 --> 01:13:16,490
come to a close oh what a pity I was

1865
01:13:20,410 --> 01:13:18,470
just getting so zoned into the zone and

1866
01:13:22,540 --> 01:13:20,420
how its zoning out earning out when

1867
01:13:24,760 --> 01:13:22,550
something I feel plate what a legend he

1868
01:13:26,590 --> 01:13:24,770
is he that was a lot of fun phil was was

1869
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:26,600
great and if you look at the photographs

1870
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:29,360
on the on the website you'll see that

1871
01:13:34,360 --> 01:13:31,010
Phil and I were actually wearing feather

1872
01:13:36,460 --> 01:13:34,370
boas during that talk nicely but what's

1873
01:13:39,480 --> 01:13:36,470
where we've agus was it no that was

1874
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:39,490
Atlanta Georgia right okay fair enough

1875
01:13:44,440 --> 01:13:42,650
you didn't mention UFO so Delia about

1876
01:13:45,910 --> 01:13:44,450
getting if earth could just get blown up

1877
01:13:47,230 --> 01:13:45,920
by aliens or something what do you think

1878
01:13:48,760 --> 01:13:47,240
stuff do you think it's fine I don't

1879
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:48,770
know well I saw Mars Attacks the other

1880
01:13:53,050 --> 01:13:50,570
day that is in the rain documentary it

1881
01:13:54,850 --> 01:13:53,060
is it is really good that's the

1882
01:13:57,670 --> 01:13:54,860
government suppress that from the news

1883
01:13:59,410 --> 01:13:57,680
ladies brave documentary makers is this

1884
01:14:01,690 --> 01:13:59,420
phenomenal but it's funny because last

1885
01:14:04,270 --> 01:14:01,700
week or a couple weeks ago was supposed

1886
01:14:07,420 --> 01:14:04,280
to be the official day that aliens were

1887
01:14:09,100 --> 01:14:07,430
always uses for saying that and I was

1888
01:14:11,530 --> 01:14:09,110
actually really hoping that they would

1889
01:14:13,990 --> 01:14:11,540
you know wouldn't it be great if they

1890
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:14,000
need and the day came and we internet

1891
01:14:17,650 --> 01:14:15,290
nothing happened it was really

1892
01:14:19,930 --> 01:14:17,660
disappointing movie next time yeah I'm

1893
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:19,940
still holding out hope but but don't

1894
01:14:24,010 --> 01:14:21,890
fear not fear not even if the aliens

1895
01:14:25,900 --> 01:14:24,020
invade we will have another skeptic zone

1896
01:14:29,020 --> 01:14:25,910
in two weeks time and this is our

1897
01:14:32,320 --> 01:14:29,030
creation special Wow yeah we're going to

1898
01:14:35,380 --> 01:14:32,330
be interviewing doctor Eugenie Scott

1899
01:14:38,890 --> 01:14:35,390
yeah in America there I visited her

1900
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:38,900
Center for Science Education excellent

1901
01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:41,690
in calif easily involved in the whole

1902
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:43,490
creation is sort of intelligent design

1903
01:14:48,580 --> 01:14:46,010
tonight oh absolutely she's in there

1904
01:14:49,630 --> 01:14:48,590
batting for the good job anyway batting

1905
01:14:51,910 --> 01:14:49,640
for their spelling for this I

1906
01:14:54,060 --> 01:14:51,920
intelligent designers I'll sorry sorry

1907
01:14:57,430 --> 01:14:54,070
sorry battling for the scientists sorry

1908
01:14:59,320 --> 01:14:57,440
and we also have an interview with dr.

1909
01:15:01,850 --> 01:14:59,330
Paul Willis who you might know from the

1910
01:15:04,070 --> 01:15:01,860
ABC I've met he came in did

1911
01:15:06,169 --> 01:15:04,080
a long long time ago we had a great old

1912
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:06,179
charity didn't paleontologist bit of a

1913
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:07,290
bit of a happening dude you'll be

1914
01:15:11,629 --> 01:15:08,850
talking about his adventures with these

1915
01:15:14,180 --> 01:15:11,639
funny old funny people call creations

1916
01:15:16,430 --> 01:15:14,190
it's going to be another fun show but

1917
01:15:17,899 --> 01:15:16,440
today was a lot of fun by the way thanks

1918
01:15:20,570 --> 01:15:17,909
for downloading thanks for listening and

1919
01:15:22,820 --> 01:15:20,580
hey why don't just rewind have no listen

1920
01:15:24,680 --> 01:15:22,830
just for fun just do it just do it and

1921
01:15:26,180 --> 01:15:24,690
I'll see you in two weeks seven yeah

1922
01:15:31,070 --> 01:15:26,190
it's been great we'll see you again

1923
01:15:34,030 --> 01:15:31,080
thanks Richard you've been listening to

1924
01:15:37,970 --> 01:15:34,040
the skeptic zone visit our website at

1925
01:15:45,100 --> 01:15:37,980
wwc a petting zoo TV for comments

1926
01:15:45,110 --> 01:15:53,740
me